Another Open Carry Texas success story ruins it for Washingtonians.....

[Dave_pro2a]

To quote Michael Corleone," It's business, not personal".

How'd that work out for him?

Adam Smith would probably say "business cannot justly exist if it is impersonal." Instead he said some mucky much about morals tempering business.

 

[countryclubjoe]

Kinda hard to trespass someone LEAVING the store.

Indeed, however, if you fail to show the receipt, they may request that you proceed back to the return register and return the items. I would think that must folks would want their refund for their purchased items. And then the problem could arise. WW, clearly you can see how we can go back and forth on this company policy issue all day. It is a moot point. My point was and is that if you do not approve of a store's policy go else where.. There is no other redress..
Should the store lose money due in part to their policy's then they will change the policy's.

Let me relate a little story. I frequent a little tavern in my area and still do. About 5 years ago they changed ownership, I stopped by the place under the new management. I wear vintage fedora's. Upon my arrival to the tavern under new ownership, I was informed that hats were prohibited.
I asked politely to my informer, are you the new owner, his reply, yes Sir I am. I then asked if his establishment offered a hat rack for my vintage fedora. He replied no Sir. I informed the gentleman that if he permitted me to sit at the bar wearing my vintage fedora, that my bar tab would probably exceed $100.00 not including a generous tip to the barkeep and that with my $100.00 tab he could not only afford to supply a hat rack for his customers but that he would also indeed keep me as a future customer. His reply was, " Let me escort you to the bar Sir". Moral of the story is that money does all the talking. Again if you don't like the rules and regulations of an establishment, take you're hard earned cash else where.

Best regards

CCJ

 

[Dave_pro2a]

Indeed, however, if you fail to show the receipt, they may request that you proceed back to the return register and return the items.

They can't force you, that would be theft.

Once purchased the customer OWNS the items.

ru American?

 

[countryclubjoe]

That would be theft.

Once purchased the customer OWNS the items.

ru American?

Yes I am an American, and I just don't defend rights that favor me, I defend all rights and liberties for all American's.

Theft by whom? If the customer decides that he/she does not like the policy of showing their receipt upon existing the story, then the customer can return back to a register and return the items and claim a refund. The store could also ask that the customer never return to their property.

Should the customer attempt to exit the property with the items without honoring a request to show his/her receipt for the merchandise he/she purchased then the store could notify the local PD and then the customer would have to deal with the PD.

My .02

Regards

CCJ

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Once purchased no one can demand I return what is mine.

 

[tombrewster421]

WW

While they have no authority to demand that a customer show said receipt, does not mean that they will not request a customer to show said receipt. You as a customer can either comply by showing the receipt and being on you're merry way or you may chose non compliance to show said receipt and therefore may be suspected of stealing and subjecting yourself to be trespassed. Also keep in mind that a private entity( think Casinos) can label you an " undesirable" person, and simply bar you from their property. Private entities that cater to the general public are not held to any Constitutional laws only Governments can violate you're Constitutional rights.

However if you feel the private entity is violating you're civil rights in some way, IE, they are only requesting black folks or Asian folks or white folks with long hair and beards or folks over 6 feet tall etc, to show said receipt, then you may have a cause of action for a civil rights violation.

Think sporting venues, concerts, movie theaters, all private entities that cater to the general public. They all have rules and regulations that they try to enforce and that customers and ticket holders adhere thereof. If you don't approve of the rules and regulations, you have a right to not purchase a ticket.

To quote Michael Corleone," It's business, not personal".

If you feel you have a civil rights beef against any company please seek proper legal counsel.

Regards

CCJ

The constitution is the supreme law of the land, without it there is no law. All laws aside from the constitution are SUPPOSED to line up with the constitution for the purpose of securing our rights as individuals. Why do you think there are privacy laws? They are an extension of the fourth amendment.

 

[OC for ME]

Not to travel too far off into the weeds. If Walmart et al claimed that you stole items, because you did not show proof of purchase, for which you have a receipt and produce such proof to the coppers after they arrive to investigate the allegation, then the store must be held to account for filing a false police report. I lodged a counter criminal complaint after just such a thing happened to me. After that day that Walmart stopped asking for proof of purchase.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Nope, it's easy. Call the police, file no trespass order.

If they leave to soon, get their license plate and have papers served on them at their home.

Pretty sure that's all it takes.

Ummm the store can't detain, and the customer is leaving. Plus there is no RAS to ask for ID, or for a stop. Getting license plates would be a abuse of NCIC, I highly doubt a police dept would give that info out, even if they did run plates. So if you are not a wanted criminal there will be no papers served. Besides the fact if I was harassed by LP and followed to my car I would call the police and press charges!

I have been stopped twice and had a demand made for my receipt, both times after I complained I received a apology from Walmart and guaranteed it would not happen again. Walmart has made it clear to their employees, they can ask but they cannot demand. They cannot detain in any form or fashion unless they have personally witnessed a crime. There is not a "I think they stole" law in most states.

 

[Dave_pro2a]

Getting license plates would be a abuse of NCIC, I highly doubt a police dept would give that info out, even if they did run plates.

afaik a lawyer(in WA) can run a plate with sufficient legal reason. IDK if filing a no trespass order would count.

More than just cops have access to vehicle registration info.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Once purchased no one can demand I return what is mine.

When I worked at a store we couldn't ask people to show receipts, in fact I think in most states you cannot detain someone for shoplifting if you did not directly see them take the items and attempt to leave the store....

A distant relative of mine left a store, and the LP guys thought he stole something but didn't seem him do it, they surrounded him and he pulled his gun on them and the police came and took his report for imprisoning him.... The store settled quickly with him..

 

[Jeff Hayes]

Should the customer attempt to exit the property with the items without honoring a request to show his/her receipt for the merchandise he/she purchased then the store could notify the local PD and then the customer would have to deal with the PD.


Why would the Cops get involved, what law was broken?

The goods were purchased and paid for in full so the can not charge for theft. The customer is leaving a place he believes he can be so trespass is not an option at that point.

The Cops do not and can not enforce a company policy.

 

[DocWalker]

Absolutely +1. It was Christmas season a couple years ago and there was an older employee at the exit of Wal Mart. I walked by him and he said, "Excuse me, sir, I need to check your receipt." I replied, "No, you don't" and kept walking. The look on the poor guy's face was priceless, he had absolutely no idea what to do.

"You will respect my authority"....lol

Really this is a Costco policy also, I have wondered about this but then again Costco is a membership place.

 

[DocWalker]

http://www.costco.com/member-privileges-conditions.html

General Policies



[*]Costco policy prohibits firearms to be brought into the warehouse, except in the case of authorized law enforcement officers.
[/LIST]

Hmmm this wasn't in my agreement that I signed and OPEN carry everytime I go there and have never been asked to leave, I have also seen other OCers in there. This is Idaho though so that might make a difference.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Hmmm this wasn't in my agreement that I signed and OPEN carry everytime I go there and have never been asked to leave, I have also seen other OCers in there. This is Idaho though so that might make a difference.

I CC in costco for ease, I never signed any "no guns" claused agreement when I joined.

As far as I'm concerned, I paid for a license to enter pursuant to an agreement, no agreement between costco and myself with my signature carries a no guns clause. So there ya go. I am abiding by my terms.

 

[golddigger14s]

I CC in costco for ease, I never signed any "no guns" claused agreement when I joined.

As far as I'm concerned, I paid for a license to enter pursuant to an agreement, no agreement between costco and myself with my signature carries a no guns clause. So there ya go. I am abiding by my terms.

never_to_much wrote on another site about the same topic:

"That's such a ******** response. You and everyone else that say, think or do this is the reason our side looses public opinion. Instead of everyone emailing them and saying we respect you right to ask us to stay home and shop else where and taking out mine we continue to loose. While watts and her genius schemes are winning."

Me: Same goes for COSTCO, starfucks, and any others like them. By concealing, and still giving them your money you are basically giving them approval. :angryfire:

 

[Dave_pro2a]

I CC in costco for ease, I never signed any "no guns" claused agreement when I joined.

As far as I'm concerned, I paid for a license to enter pursuant to an agreement, no agreement between costco and myself with my signature carries a no guns clause. So there ya go. I am abiding by my terms.

You should NEVER get a mortgage. And NEVER get an auto loan. In fact, you might not want to sign a rental agreement.

Because you obviously have no idea how to read a contract.

Membership is subject to any and all rules adopted by Costco including our privacy policies and practices, and they may be amended from time to time without notice.

http://www.costco.com/member-privileges-conditions.html

You agree to abide by any rule or policies they make in the future, without any need for them to obtain a second signature from you.

When you first became a member of Costco their membership policy might not have mentioned firearms -- but it surely had that clause above (or something similar). So they added the firearm rule later, you already agreed to abide by it or get your membership refund.

EULA FTW!

 

[MAC702]

A membership agreement that you sign need only have a clause that says you will follow their policies, even if those policies are written somewhere else and you never saw them.

I don't care how easy it is to sneak my firearm past them or whether it is a violation of law (it's not in my state). They DON'T DESERVE MY BUSINESS.

Nevada is the same for shoplifting as most of you have posted. They have to KNOW and formally accuse you of shoplifting before they can detain you from leaving with merchandise. Because if they are wrong, they are in trouble.