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7th Circuit Court of Appeals holds that the Second Amendment applies outside the home

GRusling

New member
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
1
Location
Freer, Texas
It's called Federalism

"7th Circuit Court of Appeals holds that the Second Amendment applies outside the home"

"In an opinion issued today in the Illinois case of Moore v. Madigan, the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals held that the Second Amendment “right to keep and bear arms for the purpose of self-defense … implies a right to carry a loaded gun outside the home.”

*******************************************************

...too bad the courts of Hawaii believe the 2nd Amendment means only HALF of what it says: The right to own/keepfirearms [and only if REGISTERED, that is] AT HOME. That's all...no carry.

It didn't agree with the Maryland court (U.S. District Court Judge Benson E. Legg, July 2012?) case some time back in which Legg ruled that a "good and substantial reason" did NOT need to be given in order to obtain a CC permit, just the fact that the right existed was reason enough for obtaining a CC permit (something like that, IIRC) so demanding a "good and substantial reason" was ruled UNconstitutional...which makes way for the change from may-issue to shall-issue.

And now in IL the right to choose to be armed past one's front door (to "bear" arms) is being recognized -- at least as "being implied" in the 2nd Amendment -- not just the right to have guns at home (the to "keep" part), but also to take them beyond the home (the to "bear" part)...like MOST OTHER AMERICANS can do in MOST states (if they CHOOSE to do so and are otherwise eligible).

How can American citizens in one state -- AZ, NM and CO for 3 examples -- have more rights than an American citizen in ANOTHER state -- HI and the other very few "no carry allowed" states? How does THAT make any sense?

What does it mean to be an American citizen if basic rights -- especially the Bill of Rights -- are arbitrarily applied, discriminatory (not apply to everyone) and not held in common by ALL Americans, regardless of their state of residence?

That disparity should be illegal AND unconstitutional as well -- "equal protection under the law" and all that...how states have and continue to get away with not allowing ONE form of carry (OC or CC) is outrageous.
In the beginning, 13 Independent States (Nations) joined in a federated effort to secure their independence and pledged themselves to mutual defense. The new federal government was authorized to do certain things ONLY, and each of those things was named in the new constitution. Each of the states already had a Constitution of its own, authorizing that State government to do some things while denying it authority to do others. Those State constitutions were not identical. Some even went as far as to establish a "State Religion".

The U.S. Constitution was never intended to make every State the same, and the "Bill of Rights" was written to PRECLUDE the federal government from ever attempting to make LAW in certain areas. The federal constitution forbids the federal government from attempting to control the arms of The People. Some State Constitutions actually AUTHORIZE the State Government to make such laws. Texas is one such State. It cannot deny citizens the right to KEEP their own arms, but it can "regulate" the public carrying of those arms. I'm sure many other States have similar laws. California, for instance, has no equivalent of the federal 2nd Amendment at all, and the State Government has full authority to regulate, not just the carrying of arms but the actual OWNERSHIP of firearms.

All attempts to make the U.S. Constitution apply to the internal functions of the STATES are attempts to create, not a FEDERAL government but a NATIONAL government, and those two are not the same. If successful, each and every State constitution would become null and void, while the States would become nothing more than subsidiaries of the new NATIONAL government, subject to the wishes and directions of the elites in Washington DC. That would effectively negate the limitations placed on the federal government by our constitution and change our country (not a Nation) in ways most here would find unacceptable.

This is what our current administration in Washington wants ... to penetrate the separation of powers at the federal level, which would also eliminate the authority of the different levels of government. The FIRST thing everyone needs to understand is that NO RIGHTS AT ALL are granted by the federal government through the constitution, and all that constitution provides with regard to Rights is that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is specifically forbidden to violate our existing rights, which the Declaration of Independence CLEARLY declares are NATURAL rights, obtained from our creator. There are no FEDERAL RIGHTS for the federal government to to declare, so it cannot demand that every State have the same laws and regulations as all others, because the STATE Constitution was in existence before that State became a member of the United States of America. The only thing the federal government can demand WITHIN any State is that it's government follow the "Republican Form" (a representative government) and that it make no laws which contravene federal law, which is very limited in scope and nature by the constitution. Every time we allow a federal law to function which has no constitutional authority, we limit OURSELVES and our own freedom, and the Bill of Rights is a list of things the federal government is NOT ALLOWED TO LEGISLATE on, while the 10th Amendment ties a knot by declaring that all "authority" (which is what it needs to make any law at all) not specifically surrendered to the federal government by the constitution is RETAINED by the States and/or The People. That's why the laws of one State can be different from another. Your "RIGHTS" remain the same, but there may be a difference in the way you can exercise those rights. If you don't like the "laws" of the State you're living in, you can vote with your feet and move to another. The same can't be said for our country since there's really nowhere else to go...
 
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eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,539
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
I would agree with the above with one exception.

Some rights are specifically protected from federal intrusion. For example, the First Amendment phrase, "Congress shall make no law...," clearly is placing a restriction only on the actions of the federal government. However, the Second Amendment uses much less narrow language. "Shall not be infringed" does not say who shall not infringe. Being that the States agreed to the Constitution, a reasonable interpretation is that no entity, especially not the signatories who agreed to the "contract" that is the Constitution, can infringe.

Ironically, until recently, the amendments that the Framers clearly intended to restrain only the federal government were "incorporated" onto the States. The one whose language did not clearly target on the federal government was held to apply only to that federal government.

I want to see federalism restored. I just don't see it as preventing the federal government from protecting the Right to Keep and Bear Arms from infringement by State and local governments.
 

Dave Riddle

New member
Joined
Apr 29, 2013
Messages
2
Location
Lansing, Michigan
How about my yard?

Can I sit in my yard and clean my gun? I guarantee you that the Lansing Michigan police would find a reason to arrest me if I did that. National "Clean Your Gun outside" Day would be provocative.
I recently had to go to court to have a case dismissed (resisting police) because my I.D. was in the house and I had gone outside to sit in my car to get away from my 21 and 17 year old kids on a Friday night.
 

OC4me

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
758
Location
Northwest Kent County, Michigan
This particular spammer has gotten away with at least 106 spam posts. I take it nobody has reported him. Let me figure out how to do that.

Edited to say done!

PS. I just send a message to the general OpenCarry.org contact email address via their form. If this is not the proper way to report spam, somebody please let me know, thanks!
 
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1245A Defender

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
4,362
Location
north mason county, Washington, USA
Well,,,

This particular spammer has gotten away with at least 106 spam posts. I take it nobody has reported him. Let me figure out how to do that.

Edited to say done!

PS. I just send a message to the general OpenCarry.org contact email address via their form. If this is not the proper way to report spam, somebody please let me know, thanks!
I send a P.M. spam report to grapeshot!
he usually takes care of it within an hour,,, but not this time.
I never make a reply to the spam post.
I quit trying to use the triangle button to make a report.

their are 2 spammers doing the same spams now.
they have been posting since 3:20 am my time,, last spam was at 5:55
THEY eACH HAVE OVER 100 posts,,, and they have stars!:cry:
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
7,541
Location
here nc
ever think, for a moment, grapeshot, et al., might be a smidge overwhelmed at the moment containing this possible virus or spammer?

on further review...in my humble observation....ya virus is prob the reason
just a thought...

ipse
 
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WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,878
Location
North Carolina
ever think, for a moment, grapeshot, et al., might be a smidge overwhelmed at the moment containing this possible virus or spammer?

on further review...in my humble observation....ya virus is prob the reason
just a thought...

ipse
I think it is our money grabber from yesterday PO'd because his scheme did not work. He is trying to overload the servers. Grape may have to enlist help from some of the members to quickly delete the posts while he keeps banning the user names.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,449
Location
Valhalla
Looks like nobody actually reported the spam post. For those not aware, that little triangle with the exclamation point at the bottom left of posts is what you click to report problem posts and spam. Enter a few words (but as many as needed) to describe the problem/rule violation/spam - it automatically goes to the powers that be and generally gets attended to before PMs are read.

Other easter eggs on the secret menu will be revealed over the next few days/weeks/months/years.

stay safe.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,347
Location
Valhalla
I think it is our money grabber from yesterday PO'd because his scheme did not work. He is trying to overload the servers. Grape may have to enlist help from some of the members to quickly delete the posts while he keeps banning the user names.
Looks like nobody actually reported the spam post. For those not aware, that little triangle with the exclamation point at the bottom left of posts is what you click to report problem posts and spam. Enter a few words (but as many as needed) to describe the problem/rule violation/spam - it automatically goes to the powers that be and generally gets attended to before PMs are read.

Other easter eggs on the secret menu will be revealed over the next few days/weeks/months/years.

stay safe.
A new protocol is being worked on while we speak


There is no danger of this overloading the server, not nearly big enough.

PMs still work best and are fastest way to report spammers.
 

1245A Defender

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
4,362
Location
north mason county, Washington, USA
Well,,,

Looks like nobody actually reported the spam post. For those not aware, that little triangle with the exclamation point at the bottom left of posts is what you click to report problem posts and spam. Enter a few words (but as many as needed) to describe the problem/rule violation/spam - it automatically goes to the powers that be and generally gets attended to before PMs are read.

Other easter eggs on the secret menu will be revealed over the next few days/weeks/months/years.

stay safe.
I dont know how you would be able to tell that nobody had reported...
Ive found that the triangle,,, never really worked,
It seemed that the powers that be only checked in from time to time,
no real time monitoring... soooo...
Ive been PMing grape since about 4 AM my time,,
So that when he gets on line an hour later, things will be taken care of,,, but not today...
Oddly,, he was on and made a post at 9:28 my time this AM,, then off, and still all this crap...
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,878
Location
North Carolina
I dont know how you would be able to tell that nobody had reported...
Ive found that the triangle,,, never really worked,
It seemed that the powers that be only checked in from time to time,
no real time monitoring... soooo...
Ive been PMing grape since about 4 AM my time,,
So that when he gets on line an hour later, things will be taken care of,,, but not today...
Oddly,, he was on and made a post at 9:28 my time this AM,, then off, and still all this crap...
4 AM :eek: You get up a lot earlier than I do...:lol:
 

Redbaron007

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Messages
1,613
Location
SW MO
This particular spammer has gotten away with at least 106 spam posts. I take it nobody has reported him. Let me figure out how to do that.

Edited to say done!

PS. I just send a message to the general OpenCarry.org contact email address via their form. If this is not the proper way to report spam, somebody please let me know, thanks!

I just used the icon in the lower left hand corner to report it in this thread.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,347
Location
Valhalla
I dont know how you would be able to tell that nobody had reported...
Ive found that the triangle,,, never really worked,
It seemed that the powers that be only checked in from time to time,
no real time monitoring... soooo...
Ive been PMing grape since about 4 AM my time,,
So that when he gets on line an hour later, things will be taken care of,,, but not today...
Oddly,, he was on and made a post at 9:28 my time this AM,, then off, and still all this crap...
I just used the icon in the lower left hand corner to report it in this thread.
To explain in brief:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?124527-Spam-Attack&p=2099246#post2099246
 

Robin47

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
545
Location
Susanville, California, USA
In an opinion issued today in the Illinois case of Moore v. Madigan, the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals held that the Second Amendment “right to keep and bear arms for the purpose of self-defense … implies a right to carry a loaded gun outside the home.”

The opinion is a joy to read as Judge Posner proceeds to shred the historical and public policy arguments against carry put forward by Illinois.

Here are some examples to warm your heart on this cold December afternoon:

Excerpt ... Read more at http://monachuslex.com/?p=2254
Thanks John, for sharing, good info to know. I just wish it would work in California :(
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,963
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
Thanks John, for sharing, good info to know. I just wish it would work in California :(
It's supposed to. Perhaps my high school government teacher was wrong, but Wikipedia states, "Courts of appeals decisions, unlike those of the lower federal courts, establish binding precedents. Other federal courts in that circuit must, from that point forward, follow the appeals court's guidance in similar cases, regardless of whether the trial judge thinks that the case should be decided differently."

My high school teacher taught these are appellate courts, meaning they only review the lower court's findings and either uphold, modify, or overturn, based on what's already been filed. Furthermore, if one of the other nine circuit courts of appeal receives a similar case, they can defer to the other circuit court's ruling, citing it as precedence, or create their own ruling, thereby establishing precedence.

Thus, the 7th might decide one way on an issue only for the far more left-swinging 9th to decide differently.
 
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