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1911

Big Gay Al

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
1,944
Location
Mason, Michigan, USA
And his excerpt was remember for instant use, not normal duty carry. Are you guys planning on instantly using your guns? And it was not my point it was the US Armies point.
You missed my point entirely.
the pistol may be carried safely at full cock, and it is only necessary to press down the safety lock
Even the military said so. Why they don't do that all the time, as I said before, generally speaking, the pistol is not considered a primary weapon. It is usually secondary. Those who have them in combat zones typically also have other, bigger weapons. And I'll bet if you check with some other department that uses the 1911, I'll bet you find out that those who carry it, carry in condition 1.

When I did, many moons ago, I carried it in condition 1, as a part time LEO and full time security officer. None of my bosses even blinked an eye lid. I still do, both on duty, as a security officer, and off duty, as a licensed citizen.

And yes, if I need to use my pistol, I intend to use it "instantly."
 

DamonK

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
585
Location
Ft. Lewis, WA
You missed my point entirely.
Even the military said so. Why they don't do that all the time, as I said before, generally speaking, the pistol is not considered a primary weapon. It is usually secondary. Those who have them in combat zones typically also have other, bigger weapons. And I'll bet if you check with some other department that uses the 1911, I'll bet you find out that those who carry it, carry in condition 1.

When I did, many moons ago, I carried it in condition 1, as a part time LEO and full time security officer. None of my bosses even blinked an eye lid. I still do, both on duty, as a security officer, and off duty, as a licensed citizen.

And yes, if I need to use my pistol, I intend to use it "instantly."

+1

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
You missed my point entirely.
Even the military said so. Why they don't do that all the time, as I said before, generally speaking, the pistol is not considered a primary weapon. It is usually secondary. Those who have them in combat zones typically also have other, bigger weapons. And I'll bet if you check with some other department that uses the 1911, I'll bet you find out that those who carry it, carry in condition 1.

When I did, many moons ago, I carried it in condition 1, as a part time LEO and full time security officer. None of my bosses even blinked an eye lid. I still do, both on duty, as a security officer, and off duty, as a licensed citizen.

And yes, if I need to use my pistol, I intend to use it "instantly."

Again another fallacy, the manual had instructions for "instant use". That means firing the gun, do you actually go out with your pistol and begin firing. You misinterpreted intentionally a section of the manual and tried to make a claim that the Army condoned cocked and locked for duty. IN fact that manual was field manual for combat, and even it stated NOT to holster a cocked and locked gun. You do carry in a holster don't you?

I don't care how you or anyone else carries, as long as they are responsible. That person should be willing to own up and tell the truth instead of mistruths and fabrications when and if the gun goes bang. Trying to tell others or give the impression that JMB designed the gun to be carried and locked is an outright lie. And one that has been exposed as a lie, yet a certain number of members continue to spout that lie over and over again. I have seen many times on this board members harass other members for condition 2, and tell that lie. Any person who uses their freedom and rights to carry any sidearm let alone a 1911, should understand the full consequences of life, liberty, and losing one or both or causing another to lose life or limb. Carrying isn't a game or cliche where one group tells everybody something that is a lie, and attempts to make it the truth. The person you tell to carry cocked and locked could kill someone by accident, by fingering the trigger, when fingering the trigger with condition 2 or 3 will not result in a bang.

Again do what you want, but stop using JMB to justify it.
 

Big Gay Al

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
1,944
Location
Mason, Michigan, USA
Then I will continue to point out it is a lie~~Fair enough.
I think I prefer the truth of the Late, great, Col. Jeff Cooper.

Condition One. Cocked and locked. Chamber loaded, hammer cocked, thumb safety on. This requires you to snick the safety down before firing and snick it back up when you’re finished. Simple. And as safe as any mechanical safety can possibly make a gun, which is to say as safe as is consistent with practical readiness. Condition One is the fastest way to get your 1911 into action, the least prone to mistakes, and therefore the only way to go.

That John Browning intended the 1911 to be carried in Condition One is evidenced by the fact that a major feature of the gun is the thumb safety. There is no earthly use for the thumb safety -– the part doesn’t even function -– unless the hammer is cocked. It should also be noted that the up/safe, down/fire operation of the single-action 1911 thumb safety is natural and intuitive. Walther, who invented the double-action/single-action mechanism with the little PP in 1929, chose to reverse the safety procedure, and all those manufacturers who have since adopted the double-action design have followed suit. On a double-action auto, the thumb lever up means ready to fire (requiring only a very long and godawful trigger pull), thumb lever down drops the hammer on a firing pin block (or right through the block onto the firing pin, as was not uncommon with a few earlier models). To experienced 1911 operators, the ass-backward operation of the thumb safeties of double-action autos makes it impossible to train anybody in the effective use of both single-action and double-action systems, not that it’s so easy to train anybody in the effective use of the double-action system to begin with. Since a double-action operates in two different modes, depending on where you find yourself in the shooting cycle, you have to teach two different grips and two different trigger pulls as well as the transition between them. And you have to decide whether you’re going to start and end with the safety on or the safety off, because both methods are taught by different instructors.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
I think I prefer the truth of the Late, great, Col. Jeff Cooper.

Even Cooper can and was wrong~~ Cooper did not design the 1911 or the previous models. No matter how you try to spin, claiming that JMB designed the semi auto to be carried cocked and locked is a lie. In that instance Cooper was a liar, he should have researched before telling a lie. Cooper was a great man, and a talented writer it is not surprising that he pushed his bias in his writings. Still does not change that it is not true. It is a LIE.

The evidence is clear as to the previous guns submitted, and the history of the US Calvary that the safety was added for the purpose of a emergency option when the hammer could not be lowered into the carry that the Army prescribed. In fact the changes were made to sell to the government to meet their standards. The 1900 submitted neither had a thumb safety or a grip safety, the Navy model had a sight safety, that were not in the drawings, added by colt. There is some pretty common sense indications that the Colt Semi Auto Service pistol was NOT intended to be carried cocked and locked, besides the obvious manuals. Thumb spur on the hammer, there is absolutely no need for a spur on the hammer if the gun should only be carried cocked and locked. And also the half cock notch, there is no need for it with a cocked and locked pistol. Really no need for the grip safety either, as the gun will not fire unless the trigger is pulled. BUT when cocking the gun as prescribed in the manuals with one hand it is very obvious that the grip safety is blocking the sear during cocking. Everything, the gun design, the Army manuals, the previous models, point to the fact the gun was NOT designed to be carried cocked and locked.

Let us also not forget that Colt in that time period made autos with no open hammer, that were not adopted by the US government. Surely if they requested for a auto to be made for cocked and locked why would they not specify a gun without a exposed hammer.

For the record again everybody is free to carry how they like within the law. I also consider a 1911 safe, loaded, unloaded, carried in any condition. It is the morons that don't know how to handle a gun, and operate on bad advice that bother me. And someone that makes up stuff does not give me a warm feeling either.
 
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WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Until someone can channel JMB, I'm afraid it's your opinion, vs. my opinion.

History has channeled JMB, and very clearly by the work he did submit leading up to the 1911. And your opinion is a complete fabrication, I have backed mine up with history and facts. You have backed yours up with rumors, and emotions. Again carry cocked and locked, your gun, your responsibility, if you were so confident why hang on to rumors. Would you caca in the street, or jump off a cliff because of a rumor, or a what a writer suggests? That is how antis live their life, instead of making their own decision they follow the rest of the sheep.

The one thing I know for certain, a unloaded gun cannot hurt anyone. A single action Army with the hammer down on an empty chamber will not hurt anyone. The hammer down on a modern colt, or Smith and Wesson revolver will not hurt anyone. A gun loaded in a ready to fire condition in the hands of a human that is careless even for one teeny moment can hurt and kill. Would you carry a DA revolver with the hammer cocked? Carry how you want, make sure the only person you hurt is you. If you feel safe carrying condition 1, Coopers, JMB, mine, or anyone else do not matter. You are the one held accountable not JMB. OTH I have little respect for people who use tall tales to avoid personal responsibility.

To be honest when people whimper about my carry of a single action revolver, I make no excuses, my gun, my decision, my right. I would have never wasted the time you have to justify carrying condition 1. As the Nike commercial says "Just do it" and from a movie with Burt Reynolds "Stop whimpering Rufus".
 
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Big Gay Al

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
1,944
Location
Mason, Michigan, USA
Rumors? Again, your opinion. But, have it your way. I'll still carry the way I want to. It's worked for me for 30+ years now. I see no reason to change.
 
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