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New Zealand Shooting

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
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Oct 7, 2007
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5,936
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Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
eye95, instead of wasting time researching NZ law, how about researching our right to "stand your ground" here in Ohio. The right to self-defense is a very important issue facing all of us, including you.

Lets not forget you are the one that raised the issue of self-defense. Providing us a serious analysis of having a duty to retreat in a self-defense situations would be a great service to all the members. We all need to know our rights, especially in a self-defense situation. You have shown that you have the ability to do the research; it appears research is your calling in life. Please help us, you are the person that can get this done. Please, I beg you, get this done. It's urgent, after all the world will end in 12 years. Your assistance could buy all of us time, days, weeks and maybe years.

Let me thank you ahead of time for taking on this task. I know you will not let us down.

Thank you oh worshipful master.
 

solus

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here nc
New Zealand has no constitution. What is often referred to as a constitution is a series of laws passed by the government and long-standing practices. Even in their “Bill of Rights”, enacted by their legislature, there is no Right to Self Defence and no Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

Whatever “rights” they have, were granted by the government, and can be taken away by the government. This state of affairs makes what they call “rights” to be privileges. There is no real recognition in New Zealand that the People are ultimately sovereign over the government.

To be fair, despite our having a Constitution, we are rapidly declining into a state where what the government decides is supreme over what should be inviolable Rights.

Why oh why do Americans believe everything must be a clone of our country, whether it be SA, IRAN, CAR, DOC, VENEZUELA, ZIM, AFGHAN, PAKISTAN, TURKIYE, INDIA, N KOREA, ad nauseam...

These sovereign nation’s traditions, culture, and so forth have done them well in the long haul and yes, there are problems in all of them, including this great nation.

What say we take care of our own house before espousing...omgoodness this is why it happened or they lack this which caused that.

Further eye95, to pontificate the sky is falling, like you’ve just done without absolutely one iota of cite of this decline, nor proffering one suggestion to fix your specific example is ludicrous.
 
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color of law

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That was a jerk post.
Finely, you have looked into a mirror; admitting your expatiating about subjects that have/has no effect on our everyday lives, choosing instead to not provide members of this forum with solid information that gun right advocates need to know in carrying out their everyday business.

You bring up a very important subject then kick it aside choosing to pontificate. I’m glad to see you have recognized you really have nothing to offer. If you did, you would actually have provided incite as to what is legally required to stand your ground if attacked in the public.

We all know that relying on an attorney to pull our collective a$$es out of the fire will not happen without our collective a$$es legally knowing our rights under the law.

You have to have some idea how to dance before trying out for Dancing With The Stars.
 

eye95

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Jan 6, 2010
Messages
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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Stop putting up jerk posts, and I might actually read what you have to write and interact with you. Until then, I will just consider you motive to stir up trouble.

Anyway, anyone have anything to say on-topic?
 

color of law

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Stop putting up jerk posts, and I might actually read what you have to write and interact with you. Until then, I will just consider you motive to stir up trouble.

Anyway, anyone have anything to say on-topic?
So, you are admitting you didn't look into the mirror. Practicing to deceive is not wise.
 

eye95

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And the jerk posts continue.

I won’t respond further to them in this thread. Take your last jerk word. I will reserve further comment to on-topic replies.
 

eye95

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We can’t be certain that the media is portraying the overall sentiment in New Zealand accurately. After all, they are presenting anecdotal evidence of public opinion (that coincidentally mirrors their own).

However, this story does illustrate how important it is that fundamental Rights are not determined by democratic means. It also illustrates how important the US is o the world, as the only real example of a government that is (or, at least, once was) dominated by the idea that the government derives its authority from the People, People who retain inalienable Rights.

This, in turn, proves the folly of a one-world government that, at best, would be a tyranny of the majority (democracy) or, at worst, a tyranny of an oligarchy.

We are exceptional. We are the greatest nation ever in the history of the planet. But we must be vigilant not to become too enamored of democracy. It is our nature as a Republic that has made us great.
 

WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
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11,930
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North Carolina
50 people dead, all helpless to fight back. What little of the video I could stomach at least one person tried to confront him, and was shot. Idiots, criminals, nut cases, terrorists will always have guns no matter what the laws. If not guns can of gasoline, or other makeshift explosive device. While an armed church might not have stopped people from being killed, it sure would have limited to a much lower number. Had that one person had a gun and shot him it would have been over at that point.

Politicians in any country do not care about the carnage, they only care about their own safety. They think an armed society might turn on them.
 

solus

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here nc

We can’t be certain that the media is portraying the overall sentiment in New Zealand accurately. After all, they are presenting anecdotal evidence of public opinion (that coincidentally mirrors their own).

However, this story does illustrate how important it is that fundamental Rights are not determined by democratic means. It also illustrates how important the US is o the world, as the only real example of a government that is (or, at least, once was) dominated by the idea that the government derives its authority from the People, People who retain inalienable Rights.

This, in turn, proves the folly of a one-world government that, at best, would be a tyranny of the majority (democracy) or, at worst, a tyranny of an oligarchy.

We are exceptional. We are the greatest nation ever in the history of the planet. But we must be vigilant not to become too enamored of democracy. It is our nature as a Republic that has made us great.

Eye95 you bold espouse the credibility of the NZ newspeek media yet blindly pay unwavering allegiance to WHIO which has been shown numerous times their horrific biases as well as not articulating the original distant end article truthfully or completely!

Further eye95 are you advocating this membership and reader’s summarily dismiss democracy for an obsecure term which you in passing only mention as ‘nature as a republic’ [note sure what that means or actually entails] and “this has [past tense] made us great”?

Once again eye95 you have thrown “buzz words” and “phrases” apout like confetti without on iota of background or explanation!

Sigh...never mind but one does/must have hopes an epiphany might roll across and you will see the light of articulating complete thoughts so you may satisfy communication criteria!
 

solus

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DW98, keep a low profile and best of luck mate in the ensuing rhetoric driven firestorm...
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
The good citizens of NZ could easily change the laws by electing into power those who respect individual liberty. They have not, and likely will not. NZ is ultimately a commonwealth of the Crown, as is Canada and Australia. These subjects of the crown are comfortable in their choices. Read the Daily Mail (for one source, not a endorsement) stories on this incident and take particular note of the comments from the self claimed Britons, Aussies, Kiwis.
 

eye95

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The problem with that solution is that it still places the responsibility for defining and protecting Rights on a majority vote. How did that work out for the sheep, when two wolves and he democratically decided on the evening’s menu?

That which the majority grants, the majority can remove.

The solution, nearly impossible to implement in today’s world*, is for a super-consensus of the People to create a foundational-Rights-protecting system onto which all other laws can be hung.

*A perfect storm formed 250 years ago, resulting in the creation of our Republic. I don’t see that happening ever again in human history. We need to guard this Republic, this shining city on a hill, so that every nation may look to it as an example of how to protect Liberty.
 

FreedomVA

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FreedomVA
You have to change the behaviors and thinking, not the tools...

My biggest fear is not the US lefties trying to disarm us citizens, but the pressures from the UN
 
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eye95

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We ran out of peaceful recourses on April 19, 1775. That war did not come out well for the oppressors. However, when the oppressors lose, new oppressors usually take over. The war to expel the British usurpers was an anomaly.

There is one other peaceful recourse, one that I believe has a far better chance of avoiding an other-than-peaceful recourse: The Convention of the States.

It is the only remaining chance to save the Repubic. Democracy will kill it.
 

FreedomVA

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FreedomVA
No disagreement regarding the USA, the thread is concerned with NZ and what those Kiwis can do.

There is nothing they can do short of starting over .....There were no solid Foundations in Kiwi's land on which it was built on, unlike the US and our Constitution.....it's more like a Privilege, like driving
 
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