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pulled over by a policeman

Maverick9

Regular Member
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Apr 7, 2013
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Mid-atlantic
When I said you can quell the situation I was referring to you controlling your own behavior to help diffuse the situation. As I said if you are upset and wound up then you can quell it by calming down. We've all seen the videos of the LAC getting angry and upset and either yelling or arguing about something. In those particular situations , especially if the officer is asking you to calm down, the. By calming down you again can diffuse the situation.

I agree 100% that the officers should be professional and should not be screaming swearing belittling etc. For no reason. Sometimes a raise voice is needed jut as sometimes a swear words may come out in speaking but it gives no excuse to belittle or berate or scream at someone for no reason.

You, sir are completely mistaken, and I wonder at your ability to see the truth. NO citizen in a legal stop can do anything to quell the situation. He has no power. He can remain calm and HOPE the officer has not just had a hostile encounter. In fact, being TOO CALM is a recipe for getting jerked around by the emo-driven officer.

Second, if you have someone dead to rights you don't need to scream or yell. You just calmly put the cuffs on and take the person downtown. When you do NOT have the person dead to rights, (you have insufficient RAS or evidence) is when the LEO gets into the yelling and screaming and using foul language, because he's frustrated and knows he can't really do what he'd like to do. In fact, most of the time, maybe 80% he knows he has no right to search the person and he knows he's going to turn up empty, but because the 20% that have some contraband is a BIG score for him, he's willing to trample rights and figure he'll get away with it.

You say 'it's no excuse' SINCE WHEN does a LEO need and 'excuse'? He makes his own opportunity and if all else fails, the 'smart LEO' will make the person take the ride and 'get him' by making him sit and think, scare him/her, or make them pay to get out of what shouldn't have been a stop in the first place.

Ask yourself how many times have you done things that you would not have attempted if the person's lawyer was right there and filming. I hope you're not going to say 'never'.

Have a good day! :)
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
According to the nice people on the police-centric forums, the yelling, profanities, insults and deadly threats aren't anything personal. They're just a "shock and compliance tactic" solely used to solicit cooperation from the recipient.

"Officer safety", y'know.
A professional never resorts to "profanities, insults and deadly threats".....ever, profanities, insults and deadly threats do not have a calming effect on the situation, any situation.

A true professional knows that a calm, even toned of voice, and calm easy going mannerisms are very infectious.
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
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Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
A professional, (your doctor, lawyer, barber, plumber) wants your cooperation; actions to achieve a common goal.
Officer Friendly only wants your compliance, he doesn't need your help to find out who robbed the bank, he's already sure it's you.
 

Running Wolf

Campaign Veteran
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May 10, 2009
Messages
391
Location
Corner of No and Where
A professional, (your doctor, lawyer, barber, plumber) wants your cooperation; actions to achieve a common goal.
Officer Friendly only wants your compliance, he doesn't need your help to find out who robbed the bank, he's already sure it's you.

This is so true. In the vast majority of my, admittedly few, interactions with police, the thing that irks me the most is the assumption that I'm some kind of criminal. Like they know there's something I've done wrong and their job is to find out what that is. Treat me like a regular Joe and I'll treat you the same way. However, treat me like I'm an @$$ and I'll treat you the same . . .
 

Fuller Malarkey

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Sep 12, 2010
Messages
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The Cadre
He states that he is a cop and I take him at his word. I am not a cop, and have yet to be accused of telling a lie on that point. His views and stated acts may not be to my liking on some points but I will not call him a liar.....or mangle his screen name. If he makes a false statement that can be refuted with fact(s) then I will refute his claim(s).

I reject your using my post as a conduit to insult Primus. I reject your using my post as a conduit to bash cops in general, that being a rules violation is besides the point.

I thinking Primus not being a yeller, or a Harless, does indeed mean that the citizenry in his jurisdiction should be thankful, they could have a "Harless" to contend with. It is a "royal thankfulness" not a "thank Primus."

My contention is that we have assurances through that social contract to be free from government sanctioned thuggery. I have reasonable expectations of non-oppressive behavior from government agents.

As far as "using your post", as long as no context has been altered or taken out of context, I do not accept your grounds for objection.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
My contention is that we have assurances through that social contract to be free from government sanctioned thuggery. I have reasonable expectations of non-oppressive behavior from government agents.

As far as "using your post", as long as no context has been altered or taken out of context, I do not accept your grounds for objection.

I understand and appreciate his objection. You should (don't have to, but should) respect his objection. I don't expect you will.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>
 

Fuller Malarkey

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Messages
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The Cadre
I understand and appreciate his objection. You should (don't have to, but should) respect his objection. I don't expect you will.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

Whats this, an appeal to conform through peer pressure? Good luck with that!

Primus has been challenged repeatedly by career law enforcement on this forum, has been called repeatedly for inconsistencies and contradictions to the point his claims of being a cop are suspect. I am under no obligation to go along with what you subscribe to here or anywhere else, nor have you provided any compelling contrary information. More "do what I want or I'll throw a fit".
 

Primus

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Messages
3,939
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United States
A professional never resorts to "profanities, insults and deadly threats".....ever, profanities, insults and deadly threats do not have a calming effect on the situation, any situation.

A true professional knows that a calm, even toned of voice, and calm easy going mannerisms are very infectious.

While I disagree that resorting to verbal profanities or "threats" automatically makes you unprofessional I do agree that calming words can be infectious.

Next time your with your buddies and your having a heated discussion on the best gun try talking really softly almost whispering randomly. They will be forced to stop yelling to hear you. It causes them to stop and maybe realize they were yelling in he first place.

But try this very same technique in a bar room with a highly intoxicated male. See how far it gets you....

Verbal "judo" has a time and a place. There's a time place person to use foul language or raised voice and there's a time place to use sir/ma'am please thank you in a soft voice.

If you are acting decently then you will be treated as a sir or ma'am. Point a gun at myself or someone else and I will drop a few choice words on you. Same if your swinging at myself or others or attempting to hurt someone else.

Just had a kid (he was about 20) who was suicidal the other day. We were forced to bring hi to the hospital since he had pulls knives on his parents and attempted to stab himself in the chest with them. Myself and 2 other guys talked with him for almost 10 minutes just shooting the breeze "where you from? Do u work? School" etc. To keep the situation calm. After said time he was patted down by myself (was already done once by another officer but he was going in my cruiser) As I go to pat him he down he looks me in the eye and says "what do I have to do to get you to shoot me". At this time I simply said " nothing. If you try something it will hurt a lot but we will not shoot you". Now this could be seen as a veiled "threat". I was being honest with him. If he attempted to grab my gun he would have tased at the very least. It caused him to think about his choices and realize that he wouldn't get what he wanted he would just get hurt. He was then cuffed without incident and was brought to the hospital for treatment.

Personally I don't think that "veiled threat" was unprofessional. It got him to realize I wasn't playing and he couldn't get me to shoot him.

"Threats" like " shut the f up or I will hurt you" are completely unprofessional and unneeded.

I hope some see the difference and realize my point

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
 
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countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
Agreed on all points but one. I am not afforded the opportunity to "request" that the cop calm down, well I could attempt to calm him down, but THAT is a "bad career move."

I really dislike being made to "just take it", as prideful as I am and also me having to pay upfront to gain redress. All the while hoping that I get reimbursed for my efforts to corral a thug cop when his LEA will not. Government workers are "at will" employees and thug cops of that type are not a one time thug and then a simple talking to fixes the issue. Thugs are thugs.

It is a affront to my personal liberty, and my personal finances by the way. Why must I, or any citizen, bear the burdens to fix from the outside what is more easily fixed from within. Every liberty centric cop should be working to rid their LEA of those few who taint that LEA in a negative light. Good cops never get a second thought, even though they should. Thug cops always gain the limelight and they should.....only once.

Hi OC

Filing proper criminal chargers under U.S.C. 18 section 241 and section 242. Then follow up with a civil suit under U.S.C 42 section 1983.
The defendant's in a 1983 litigation are responsible for all costs associated with the litigation... You could also seek redress against the leo in a personal suit...

Read " The Criminal Civil Rights Statutes" 18 USC $ 241 and 242-

241- " Conspiracy against Rights.
242- " Deprivation of Rights under color of law"

OC, I always enjoy reading your post and I appreciate your insight.

Thank you and best regards.

CCJ
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
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Calling someone a frigging idiot for being a frigging idiot is not the same as what I am referring to.

In my 20+ years of Naval Service, my vocabulary was very limited at times, usually when professionalism was least expected, and after a hard night of running on four engines. But, I digress, when I was required to be a professional, and there were far more times than not that I was required to be professional, yelling, profanity, and threats were no where to be seen. "Loud voices" to communicate over the background noise is yelling by definition but not the yelling I am referring to.

There is no place for foul words, ever in the course of your "duties." The English language has far too many options to choose from and professionals make the appropriate choices. There is never a place for a threat, ever, there is a "explanation of consequences" if there is ambiguity, or you just do what is required to be done without explanation.

A cop has his gun pointed at me, no words are needed, no yelling, no profanity, the threat is self evident. Calm even toned commands, discernible above the background noise, and the cop will observe that my compliance will be immediate and conducted exactly as commanded.

You agree with the premise that it is appropriate to use profanity, yelling, and threats based on the situation. I do not, professionals have no need to resort to those "tools."
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
Hi OC

Filing proper criminal chargers under U.S.C. 18 section 241 and section 242. Then follow up with a civil suit under U.S.C 42 section 1983.
The defendant's in a 1983 litigation are responsible for all costs associated with the litigation... You could also seek redress against the leo in a personal suit...

Read " The Criminal Civil Rights Statutes" 18 USC $ 241 and 242-

241- " Conspiracy against Rights.
242- " Deprivation of Rights under color of law"

OC, I always enjoy reading your post and I appreciate your insight.

Thank you and best regards.

CCJ
This I know, but lawyers gotta feed their kids and college funds.

It is reimbursement that I will usually be seeking, after some very very lengthy delay, if ever. Until then my kids and their college fund must suffer. It is what it is.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
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Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
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White Oak Plantation
This I know, but lawyers gotta feed their kids and college funds.

It is reimbursement that I will usually be seeking, after some very very lengthy delay, if ever. Until then my kids and their college fund must suffer. It is what it is.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/federal-statutes

Based on what i read, 241 requires two perps.

242 is a different matter. Though, claiming ignorance of the "exact wording of the law"......the "handbook is a wee bit outta date" will likely free the cop(s) from any liability. I sometimes wonder if the "handbook" is intentionally outta date for just such a situation. Either way, ya gotta pay to play and the odds are always in the favor of the house.

It is the rare bird that a slam-dunk case walks in off the street for a attorney where he will work on his own dime for a almost guaranteed big payout on the back end.
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
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2,505
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nj
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/federal-statutes

Based on what i read, 241 requires two perps.

242 is a different matter. Though, claiming ignorance of the "exact wording of the law"......the "handbook is a wee bit outta date" will likely free the cop(s) from any liability. I sometimes wonder if the "handbook" is intentionally outta date for just such a situation. Either way, ya gotta pay to play and the odds are always in the favor of the house.

It is the rare bird that a slam-dunk case walks in off the street for a attorney where he will work on his own dime for a almost guaranteed big payout on the back end.

OC

PRO SE my Friend, PRO SE..

Best regards.

CCJ
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
Even lawyers hire attorneys. I would be a fool to represent myself in all but a traffic infraction case.

Hi OC

Civil litigation while much more complex then criminal litigation is a question of risk vs reward.. In a criminal matter we are defending our freedom aka no jail sentence.. In a civil litigation we are seeking monetary rewards.. Hence freedom is more important then monetary gain. Therefore I would suggest the best defense counsel that money can purchase in defending your individual freedom in a criminal matter. However, in a civil litigation involving monetary gain, I am of the opinion that any citizen with a IQ of 110 or higher should have no problem litigating their cause of action and seeking redress. A citizen need not be a member of the old boy network ( Bar association) to have positive results in righting wrongs bestowed unto them. Also there is the art of negotiation. I have employed counsel to second chair on civil matters at 12/13 %. You are basically renting their license number..

My .02

Thank you and best regards.

CCJ
 

cce1302

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
265
Location
South Bend, Indiana, USA
Moral of the story.----- do not carry any gun if you have had something [alchol ] to drink or on school property and know your state laws.
If pulled over they will know if you have a carry permit.
Thanks for reading

Know your state laws.

It isn't illegal to carry if you've had alcohol.

It is illegal to drive if you've had alcohol.

Don't drink and drive.
 
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