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Bill passed, can we carry in the vehicle...

springfield 1911

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Messages
484
Location
Racine, Wisconsin, USA
RL 34.011 Conditions relating to transporting a
loaded firearm in a vehicle. No owner or employee of an
agency may transport a loaded firearm in a vehicle, unless all of
the following apply:
(1) The firearm is in plain view. In this section “in plain view”
means it is visible from ordinary observation to a person outside
the vehicle.
Note: A firearm located in a glove compartment, in a briefcase, under a seat of a
vehicle, or covered by the clothing of an occupant, is not “in plain view.”
(2) If the firearm is a handgun, the owner or employee transports
the firearm in a holster which is in plain view.
(3) If the firearm is other than a handgun, the owner or
employee transports the firearm in a device inside the vehicle
which locks the firearm in position and prevents an unauthorized
person from removing the firearm from the locking device and
which is in plain view.
(4) The owner or employee complies with the requirements in
s. RL 34.01.
History: Cr. Register, January, 1977, No. 493, eff. 2−1−97; am. (intro.), Register,
November, 1997, No. 503, eff. 12−1−97

Is not the definition of concealed in here? seeing that we are only looking for definition of what constitutes concealed, weather or not that this applies to the subject of security officers , the definition should apply to anyone . So says common sense.
Also at the time of those court cases which relied on currant laws we will be under new laws will we not. Just tossing out what resembles scrambled eggs here.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

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Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
Is not the definition of concealed in here? seeing that we are only looking for definition of what constitutes concealed, weather or not that this applies to the subject of security officers , the definition should apply to anyone . So says common sense.
Also at the time of those court cases which relied on currant laws we will be under new laws will we not. Just tossing out what resembles scrambled eggs here.

Yes, however, that explicitly applies to someone with a guard licence. I believe this was in effect when the cases cited were litigated.

Would the Supreme Court decide the same way today? Probably not, however, the precedent is still binding until changed by law (it wasn't) or precedent.
 

Brass Magnet

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Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
2,818
Location
Right Behind You!, Wisconsin, USA
Sprinfield, you're right, common sense SHOULD apply but we know how that goes. If they would have repealed and recreated 941.23 I don't think we would be worrying too much because the case law would no longer apply but they only amended it.

Both Phred and I have asked our congress critters to get an AG opinion since just like you guys, we believe the intent was clear, but I don't know what use there is speculating until we hear back. By all means speculate away, just know that hopefully clarification is in process.
 

davegran

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
1,563
Location
Cassville Area -Twelve Miles From Anything, Wiscon
Please provide a citation.

Here are mine:

A defendant was properly convicted under this section for driving a vehicle with a gun locked in a glove compartment. State v. Fry,
Sorry, SB93 doesn't change any part of 941.23 that addresses any of these court ruling so they still stand.
How about this:
167.31 (1) (b) “Encased” means enclosed in a case that is completely zipped, snapped, buckled, tied or otherwise fastened with no part of the firearm exposed.
Doesn't a glove compartment or a center console qualify?
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
How about this:Doesn't a glove compartment or a center console qualify?

But we still get 941.23 and 167.31 'arguing'. They didn't fix it (941.23). So... you aren't violating 167.31 if you put your loaded firearm in your glove box or center console but it is concealed still according to 941.23 and it's precedent legal cases.
 
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paul@paul-fisher.com

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May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
OK, lets examine the latest memo from the LRB:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19481227/IM2011_1002.pdf

OK, people keep quoting that memo but let's look at the last page:

Does the bill allow me to place, possess, or transport a loaded, unencased handgun in a vehicle?
As described above, the bill does allow the placement, possession, and transportation of handguns in a number of different types of vehicles, regardless of whether a person is a licensee. However, if a person is not a licensee, the handgun cannot be concealed in the vehicle and, as noted above, Wisconsin courts have taken a broad view of what constitutes the concealment of a firearm in a vehicle.

Further up, it acknowledges the following:
Wisconsin courts have interpreted the term “concealed” broadly with respect to firearms in vehicles, holding that a firearm in a vehicle is concealed if it is indiscernible from the ordinary observation of a person located outside and within the immediate vicinity of the vehicle.
This is a footnote on page 2.

The last statement of the memo says
This memorandum is not a policy statement of the Joint Legislative Council or its staff.

So.... absent an AG opinion, a fixing of 941.23, or a new court precedent, concealed carry in a vehicle without a permit is still a crime. See the previous paragraph for definition of concealed in a vehicle. So..... even though 167.31 says I can put a loaded firearm in ANY container in my car, 941.23 says I can't.
 
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IcrewUH60

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
481
Location
Verona, Wisconsin, USA
OK, lets examine the latest memo from the LRB:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19481227/IM2011_1002.pdf

OK, people keep quoting that memo but let's look at the last page:



Further up, it acknowledges the following: This is a footnote on page 2.

The last statement of the memo says

So.... absent an AG opinion, a fixing of 941.23, or a new court precedent, concealed carry in a vehicle without a permit is still a crime. See the previous paragraph for definition of concealed in a vehicle. So..... even though 167.31 says I can put a loaded firearm in ANY container in my car, 941.23 says I can't.

so, loaded and on the dash?
 

rcawdor57

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
1,643
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Put A Ransom Rest On The Roof!

That way when you get out of your vehicle you just release it and put in in the holster. Oh...wait a second...it can't be ON or IN a vehicle unless it is "Unloaded and Encased".

Dang it!
 

davegran

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
1,563
Location
Cassville Area -Twelve Miles From Anything, Wiscon
Wave it out the window???? :banghead::cuss:
.
oaau54.jpg


Accepting orders now.... :monkey
 

Jimbok

New member
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
9
Location
Wi
So long story short Its a hit or miss on carrying open in holster while driving a car till nov 1 st?

when nov 1st comes about will wisconisn recognize other states licenses so that you dont have to get a WI permit?

Its funny that open carry is legal in state but have to carry gun encased and unloaded in car to transport but then when you get out to put it on you break laws LOL

what a load of ****
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
So long story short Its a hit or miss on carrying open in holster while driving a car till nov 1 st?

when nov 1st comes about will wisconisn recognize other states licenses so that you dont have to get a WI permit?

Its funny that open carry is legal in state but have to carry gun encased and unloaded in car to transport but then when you get out to put it on you break laws LOL

what a load of ****

No, no loaded firearms in vehicles until November 1st. After November 1st, hit or miss.
 

davegran

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
1,563
Location
Cassville Area -Twelve Miles From Anything, Wiscon
So long story short Its a hit or miss on carrying open in holster while driving a car till nov 1 st?

when nov 1st comes about will wisconisn recognize other states licenses so that you dont have to get a WI permit?

Its funny that open carry is legal in state but have to carry gun encased and unloaded in car to transport but then when you get out to put it on you break laws LOL

what a load of ****
Only if the licensee is not a resident of Wisconsin.
 
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