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I Had My First Encounter With A LEO Today…Long, Very Long Story…

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
So you're saying that he pulled you over on his own accord, and not under the color of law??? :uhoh:

I do not believe he is saying that. It is his 1st ORR and I believe I might not of told him all that needs to be asked for. Blame me. I need to dig up the proper wording unless someone else has it handy. I guess I'm getting rusty.
 

Lurchiron

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
1,011
Location
Shawano,WI.
I do not believe he is saying that. It is his 1st ORR and I believe I might not of told him all that needs to be asked for. Blame me. I need to dig up the proper wording unless someone else has it handy. I guess I'm getting rusty.


Just wanted to make sure we don't have some Barney running around on a personal crusade, whilst in uniform...
 

Outdoorsman1

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
1,248
Location
Silver Lake WI
Lurchiron... I let your crack about me bring the LEO doughnuts and coffee slide as to not be confintational on this website as well as I felt it was not worthy of a responce but... WTF...????

ALL I AM SAYING... Is that the LEO did not think the contact serious enough to even file a official police report... no case number, no arrest, no ticket in the mail...NOTHING but what was described in my original post...

" Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com
I do not believe he is saying that. It is his 1st ORR and I believe I might not of told him all that needs to be asked for. Blame me. I need to dig up the proper wording unless someone else has it handy. I guess I'm getting rusty."

Thanks Paul but I am good... NO need to take any blame here... Not even sure if "Blame" even applies...

I made sure that I asked for ALL information and documents regarding my encounter and repeatedly asked for the "Police Report" and that I would file an "Open Record Request" to obtain the actual report. The office lady behind the window (who has absolutley no interest whatsoever in this, told me there was no case number and no report. All she had in her computer (after searching for about 5 minutes with me watching her) regarding the incendent was the "Call for Service" paper. I paid the 50 CENTS and got a single sheet that was more a document that the LEO radioed the desk (dispatch?) to report "Check for loaded weapon - All Ok"

For Christ sake... Why can't some here just accept that it is what it is...for what it is... a LEO encounter WITHOUT a bad ending....as foregin as that concept seems to be around here...

If you do not agree with how I handled this encounter thats fine but do not put words into my mouth trying to make it into something its not...as in...

"So you're saying that he pulled you over on his own accord, and not under the color of law???"

OK...rant button off....

I think I am about done here...

Outdoorsman1
 

protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,308
Location
SE, WI
We are not chiding you, but giving your points on how to better handle it in the future.
 

civilwarguy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
197
Location
elkhorn wi
ok so i am gonna my out look here... Any LEO encounter that doesn't result in an arrest or ticket or seizure of a weapon is successful in my mind. Does that mean it was right? no Does that means things COULD have been done differently? yes... But it also means that the LEO in question may next time deal with an OCer differently because of his experience with the last he had experience with. And anything that leads to better treatment by LEOs no matter how small it may be in my opinion is a success.


If you feel the need to disagree or to pick apart my opinions so be it. They are mine and I claim them.
 

Outdoorsman1

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
1,248
Location
Silver Lake WI
We are not chiding you, but giving your points on how to better handle it in the future.

Just because your way is different than mine does not make it "better" I can not help but wonder if I did it your way i might be known in the future as "The Paddock Lake 1".. as it happened in the town of Paddock Lake....

NOW I am done here...

Outdoorsman
 
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civilwarguy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
197
Location
elkhorn wi
All I have to say is:
You are coming fishing with Outdoorsman1 and me. Right? Everyone else is invited too...

depends when and where.... dont know what the schedule will be with the new job yet and i am still itching for some range time so that would win out before fishing i am thinking but keep me up dated you never know.
 

Snake161

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
78
Location
Wisconsin
To be honest, I will not consent to searches no matter what. The worst that can happen is they will arrest you, in which case you ask them what you are being arrested for and make sure the recorder picks it up.

As far as being detained, if I am approached by an officer in the future, I will ask them if I can help them in any way. They inform me of the issue, I will tell them I am legally open carrying

If they ask for my ID, I will tell them no. I MIGHT give them my name verbally and then shutup.

Otherwise;

I will then ask if I am being detained and if so for what.

If they say no, we/I am not, I will tell them I am leaving.

Anything else is no. They will not touch my property. They will not search my vehicle. Only until they arrest me and force their bureaucracy upon me will they be able to search my vehicle and take my firearm.

And I think somebody mentioned DC as a reason to arrest you and/or detain you and issue a citation.

Not the case. You would have to actually be making a disturbance such as disturbing the peace, or threatening people, etc.

Hasn't anybody seen this memorandum sent out by JBVH from the DOJ? This was sent out to all district attorneys declaring that open carry is legal and not grounds for a DC. I carry a copy with me as well as other laws. It's a very nice informational piece.
http://www.doj.state.wi.us/news/files/FinalOpenCarryMemo.pdf

Anyway, yes, I think the situation ended good. But I think cops need to understand they are not above us. And I do not enjoy my privacy or possessions being fondled or touched, especially my firearms. It is my right to refuse them if I have not committed a crime.

And as previously stated, allowing them to touch your firearm could cause an accidental discharge. Use this to deter them from trying to do so and make sure the recorder picks it up. Either way, I don't allow anybody to touch my possessions without my permission.

I have learned that if you are stopped in your vehicle, present ID, stay in the car but don't open the window much. If they ask you do you have any weapons, drugs, etc. in the car, tell them you have nothing illegal in the vehicle. No searches. Let em' bring the dogs. If they ask you to get out, roll up the windows, lock the doors and pocket the keys.


I don't know....I guess I feel differently about cops. Ever since I was a teenager they would try ANYTHING to incriminate me for whatever they could even though I was always EXCEPTIONALLY cordial to them. Whether it be my project cars, motorcycles, whatever. I am older, wiser, and educated now. And I believe in the rights of this country and plan to exercise them, especially my right to property and privacy.

You don't need to be rude, but FIRM. THAT is all. :banana:
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
To be honest, I will not consent to searches no matter what. The worst that can happen is they will arrest you, in which case you ask them what you are being arrested for and make sure the recorder picks it up.

Ummm. You understand that an arrest generally means a very thorough search of your person--any recorder is likely to be found. If the cop arrested you for legal conduct, it is not beyond imagination that any recording, or even the recorder itself, might disappear.

Hunt up "search incident to arrest." It is a recognized exception to the warrant clause. Lots of court cases about it.
 
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Snake161

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
78
Location
Wisconsin
My recorder is my cellphone and it is highly sensitive, it can pick up soft sounds from 10 feet away. It automatically uploads to the network I have setup. 10 steps ahead of you and the cops.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
My recorder is my cellphone and it is highly sensitive, it can pick up soft sounds from 10 feet away. It automatically uploads to the network I have setup. 10 steps ahead of you and the cops.

Well, yes. And, perhaps a few steps ahead of yourself.

You understand you said "you": "The worst that can happen is they will arrest you, in which case you ask them what you are being arrested for and make sure the recorder picks it up." Which is a little different than, "I will ask them what I am being arrested for..."

Many folks have voice-recorders, as opposed to cell phones that up-load while recording.
 

Snake161

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
78
Location
Wisconsin
I meant to say I run both. That way, I feel that I am protected. This post refers to what I will do in another situation. Anybody who feels they have read the law and condensed it can choose to accept my methods or not, all I know, when the battery runs out on my recorder or it is taken, most of what happened will be out to the world already.
 

LR Yote 312

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Messages
458
Location
God's Country, Wi
My recorder is my cellphone and it is highly sensitive, it can pick up soft sounds from 10 feet away. It automatically uploads to the network I have setup. 10 steps ahead of you and the cops.

Except the part where they confiscate it.

Cops have been confiscating c/phones,especially those new smart phones that fall between the cracks of being a computer.
Yeah its on your network...but they still have the phone.

Which I am sure wasnt cheap.

LR Yote
 
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apjonas

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
1,157
Location
, ,
Terry Stop Search

RAS of criminal activity is a condition precedent to a Terry Stop. A search is NOT authorized solely because there is a Terry Stop. There must be additional RAS to justify the search (RAS of a dangerous weapon, etc.) Even then the search must be limited to the degree justified by the RAS. If you disagree, point me to a Supreme Court case that says otherwise. I am not talking about search incident to arrest, consensual search or anything else.

By the way, WI does have a "stop and id" statute (Wis. Stat. 968.24). Again there must be RAS of criminal activity. Note that I am not saying that the detainee is generally required to provide answers or documentary identification or that there is a penalty for not doing so. This is the essential difference between WI and other states, e.g. Nevada (remember Mr. Hiibel?) - NV had a statute that imposed a penalty for not providing certain information. Of course, the police can extend the length of the detention (and will) if you clam up. I am certainly not saying that police can, absent RAS, detain a citizen.

By the way, Madison Quartet, I saw video of the recent political upheaval in Madison. I find it ironic that having a bite to eat while legally armed is deemed (eventually) to be disorderly conduct yet yelling obscenities at people trying to enter a business did not attract the interest of at least two LEO's observing the activity. I used to think that MPD was merely incompetent. Now it appears that they are actually corrupt. Disconcerting at a minimum. Perhaps you should form a union. How about WI-COPS (Wisconsin Inhabitants Carrying Openly for Protection and Security)?
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Except the part where they confiscate it.

Cops have been confiscating c/phones,especially those new smart phones that fall between the cracks of being a computer.
Yeah its on your network...but they still have the phone.

Which I am sure wasnt cheap.

LR Yote

I don't know that it is confiscated. I have read excerpts of federal court cases authorizing cops to search a cell phone seized during a search-incident (to arrest). But, I haven't found anything yet that authorizes confiscation. Have you?

I guess if one is a drug dealer and the cell phone is a business device, its probably gone under asset forfeiture.

We're straying from the thread, though.
 
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