Purchasing a handgun via private sale...Kicked out of Gunshow!

ainfantry7 · Aug 22, 2010

Forgot to finish...I was checking out another pistol when they confronted me and told me to leave. I tried to reason with them, but they just wouldn't have it. Atleast from a youngin when one of them made it clear that they were a 20 some year state police officer.

Any help or phone numbers would be appreciated. Will take the camera tommarow too...

Thanks,
ainfantry7

nova · Aug 22, 2010

ainfantry7 said:
one of them made it clear that they were a 20 some year state police officer.

Oh now this is good stuff. A 20 years state trooper in what state? I HIGHLY doubt anyone with any connection to Virginia State Police would be that ignorant and wrong on VA gun laws. I would have called him out on his BS right there and get a real Virginia State Trooper to correct this wrongdoing. And maybe even get this guy who stop with his BS that's now sounding like borderline impersonation.

peter nap · Aug 22, 2010

See if you can get names today,

Grapeshot · Aug 22, 2010

ainfantry7 said:
Forgot to finish...I was checking out another pistol when they confronted me and told me to leave. I tried to reason with them, but they just wouldn't have it. Atleast from a youngin when one of them made it clear that they were a 20 some year state police officer.

Any help or phone numbers would be appreciated. Will take the camera tommarow too...

Thanks,
ainfantry7

Guess they retired early so that they could become rent-a-cops sooner. :lol:

You really need to clear up the question regarding your shown profile location and your desire to acquire guns in Virginia. Not suggesting any negative condition - it just causes confusion.

TFred · Aug 22, 2010

Grapeshot said:
Guess they retired early so that they could become rent-a-cops sooner. :lol:

You really need to clear up the question regarding your shown profile location and your desire to acquire guns in Virginia. Not suggesting any negative condition - it just causes confusion.

The username pretty much implies active duty... which if so, makes it not at all confusing.

TFred

Grapeshot · Aug 22, 2010

TFred said:
The username pretty much implies active duty... which if so, makes it not at all confusing.

TFred

I understand the assumption - the question was asked earlier in the thread also.

Hokie · Aug 22, 2010

nova said:
Private property owners can set whatever policy they like. But that is far different than telling you you're committing an illegal act, which they did. I would have had the armed guards call over an actual LEO (since I'm sure there were several there at the show) and had them confirm or [deny] their accusation. I still would leave if they asked me to to avoid trespass but I would not accept their accusation of me violating the law.

If they really believed it was illegal they why did they not call over a LEO to arrest him?

architect · Aug 22, 2010

One thing, about getting confirmation of "the law" at a gun dealer's table, I would not expect an FFL to necessarily have expert knowledge of laws that do not pertain to FFLs, e.g. those regulating private transfers. In fact, I suspect some would not be unhappy if private transfers were required to go through them, and this may influence their representations on the matter.

If there's a VCDL table at the gun show, you're far more likely to get a definitive affirmation there, perhaps in a copy of the VA Gun Owner's Guide.

VCDL President · Aug 22, 2010

Should be OK now

I just talked to Annette Elliott with C&E Gun shows about the incident and explained that private handgun sales to someone 18 or older is OK - it's only FFL sales that are disallowed by Federal law. I also clarified that someone 18 or older can OC.

peter nap · Aug 22, 2010

VCDL President said:
I just talked to Annette Elliott with C&E Gun shows about the incident and explained that private handgun sales to someone 18 or older is OK - it's only FFL sales that are disallowed by Federal law. I also clarified that someone 18 or older can OC.

Well Done Philip!

I assume Annette is going to let Security know.

Grapeshot · Aug 22, 2010

Originally Posted by VCDL President
I just talked to Annette Elliott with C&E Gun shows about the incident and explained that private handgun sales to someone 18 or older is OK - it's only FFL sales that are disallowed by Federal law. I also clarified that someone 18 or older can OC.

peter nap said:
Well Done Philip!

I assume Annette is going to let Security know.

I would have thought she already knew that and they do sell things besides guns.

The bigger problem was running the young man out because he was OCing (legally). That is what needs to be corrected with security.

aadvark · Aug 22, 2010

Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 922(x) says...: 18 is the age to Carry a Pistol, with certain exceptions!

Generally, Federal Firearm Licensee's can not transfer to a Pistol to someone under 21 years of age.

However, Private Transfers under Virginia Law are set at 18 years of age, per Virginia Law 18.2-308.7.

Private Transfers, under the applicable Virginia Statute enumerated above, fall outside of FFL Transactions, unless; the Person doing the Transaction is a FFL Holder Himself.

Bill Starks · Aug 22, 2010

I'm in this same fight out in Washington State with the Washington Arms Collector shows. It looks like I am going to have to go before the Board of Directors in order to get it resolved.

At the WAC shows you have to be a member to buy a weapon. You also have to have a background check completed and according to their by-laws as well as state & federal a 18 year old should be able to purchase a weapon from a private seller.

18 USC 922 (Unlawful Acts) subsection X
(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile:
(A) a handgun;or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
(5) For purposes of this subsection, the term "juvenile" means a person who is less than 18 years of age.

simmonsjoe · Aug 22, 2010

ed said:
Roger that.. but if they RENTED it, they set the rules.

Even if they rent it for a public access event???

I could understand if ti was rented for a private event, but not for a public access event.

Grapeshot · Aug 22, 2010

Originally Posted by ed
Roger that.. but if they RENTED it, they set the rules.

simmonsjoe said:
Even if they rent it for a public access event???

I could understand if ti was rented for a private event, but not for a public access event.

You mean like this one in Alexandria?
http://www.vaag.com/OPINIONS/2010opns/10-009-Greason.pdf

skidmark · Aug 22, 2010

Grapeshot said:
You mean like this one in Alexandria?
http://www.vaag.com/OPINIONS/2010opns/10-009-Greason.pdf

Sweet bouncy Baby Geebus, here we go again. If the question had been phrased differently, the answer would have been much more to the liking of the RKBA/OC/CCW/guns-is-good crowd. But rather that focus on asking what rights a locality can give away, the question was asked about what restrictions a private party can impose.

If the property is public, the local government ought to be protecting the rights of the citizens on that property at all times, not giving them up for the convenience of some private third party. If the private third party does not like the free exercise of rights then they can go find some private property at which to hold their event so they can restrict certain rights at will.

"Those that will not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" apparently is a law, not just some philosophical observation, they way some folks go at it.

stay safe.

simmonsjoe · Aug 23, 2010

This opinion is trash and makes me question Cuccinelli.

OT, new thread started

VCDL President · Aug 24, 2010

peter nap said:
Well Done Philip!

I assume Annette is going to let Security know.

Yes

user · Aug 24, 2010

Well, lawyer-mode:
(1) Did OP get his money refunded to him? and
(2) Was the prohibition explained to him prior to entry (actually or constructively)?

I'm guessing he's probably entitled to five hundred bucks, minimum, for violation of the Virginia Consumer Protection Act.

RussP · Aug 24, 2010

And that $500.00 would come from whom?

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