There's at least one whole thread dedicated to the discussion of whether or not to produce ID on the demand of a random LEO.
The topic arises all too often in threads like this, where a new person says "I handled this well!" and more experienced people (
who have seen &/or experienced harassment) point out that while yes, he didn't get a ticket & the cop left fairly quickly, it could have gone much better or worse, & there's no way to know which because all cops look alike.
There's no way to tell the good ones (
who respect the laws) from the bad ones (
who are on a power trip).
lockman said:
If the request was not for an ID but for a drivers license would it be different?
I think so.
It's my understanding that if you're behind the wheel, even if the car is parked, they can demand a DL if they have RAS.
Not simply for suspicion of driving, but if they have RAS of a crime.
Torquemaster69 said:
She also knew or should have known that it's a competely legal activity & requires no attention on her part.
Shame on the calltaker & dispatcher for wasting an officer's time on a call which basically told them "there's a guy here who's not doing anything wrong".
Seriously, would they send an officer to detain someone who was wearing a cross or playing basketball or talking on a cell phone? (Absent other evidence of a crime in progress.)
No.
What could she POSSIBLY do with my ID to arrest me with no previous record
"build a case" against me? On what grounds?
Ask some of the people here on OCDO who have been wrongfully arrested for lawfully carrying, then come back & answer your own question.
for all she knows, I am a felon
Did she also demand ID & run a check on everyone who was there with children, to make sure they're not kidnappers or have a court order prohibiting them from being around children?
She has to have reasonable articulable suspicion (RAS) of a crime before interfering in your day.
I CHOSE to to get her out of my hair faster
And you'll probably do the same thing again, so nothing anyone here says explaining why you might want to consider changing your thinking will have any effect.
Maybe someday you'll run into a LEO who decides that since she has your identity document she'll just hang onto it as a way to pressure you into allowing a search of your car.
Or once they know who you are they'll make up a completely BS charge & you can spend a couple days in jail + thousands of $$ in legal fees before a jury declares you innocent.
BTDT
"Complied to every request made"? she had only ONE request... "can I see your ID?"
And you complied with it, right?
Q.E.D.
is it really that hard to hand over a piece of plastic so they can check to see if you have any warrants
Not hard at all.
It's much harder to stand up for your right to be free from unwarranted searches & seizures.
They HAVE to come out and investigate on a gun call
No, they don't.
SCOTUS has ruled (as have many lower courts) that police have no duty to protect any individual who's not in custody. Police can ignore multiple calls saying "come quick! my roommate is downstairs screaming that 2 men are raping her!" and there will be no legal repercussion.
[Yes, that happened. Warren v. DC]
This wasn't a "No reason" situation.
Yes, it was.
"The mere presence of firearms does not create exigent circumstances."
WI v. Kiekhefer
"Stopping a car for no other reason than to check the license and registration was unreasonable under the 4th amendment."
Delaware v. Prouse
"Mr. St. John’s lawful possession of a loaded firearm in a crowded place could not, by itself, create a reasonable suspicion sufficient to justify an investigatory detention."
St. John v. McColley
The Third Circuit found that an individual’s lawful possession of a firearm in a crowded place did not justify a search or seizure.
United States v. Ubiles
The Tenth Circuit found that an investigatory detention initiated by an officer after he discovered that the defendant lawfully possessed a loaded firearm lacked sufficient basis because the firearm alone did not create a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity.
United States v. King
metronumic said:
I don't understand why everyone is piling on about the OP providing his ID. The cop asked him for it, and he made HIS choice. Just because a large majority here don't feel that you should provide your ID to a cop, doesn't mean its the wrong choice.
We've explained why giving into unlawful demands is a bad choice, both for that person & for everyone who comes after.
It's interesting that the relative newcomers still think that it's a good idea to give into demands, while the members who have been here longer understand why it's not.