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Thread: Do you consider yourself a part of the militia? Which part? In what capacity?

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Do you consider yourself a part of the militia? Which part? In what capacity?

    In my travels through the founding documents, I've come across three distinct uses of the term "militia."

    The first is as used in our Constitution and Amendments:

    1. The armed people mentioned four times in the U.S. Constitution as separate from the Army and Navy.

    Article 1 Section 8 Clauses 15 and 16:

    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

    Article II Section 2 Clause 1:

    The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States

    Amendment II:

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    Amendment V:

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger

    The second comes from the Militia Act of 1903, which breaks it down into two categories:

    Organized militia – consisting of State militia forces; notably, the National Guard and Naval Militia.[8] (Note: the National Guard is not to be confused with the National Guard of the United States.)

    Unorganized militia – composing the Reserve Militia: every able-bodied man of at least 17 and under 45 years of age, not a member of the National Guard or Naval Militia

    The third comes from the writings of our Founding Fathers, where it's definition varies depending on who's doing the writing. This link, for example, mentions "militia" some 58 times.

    Boiling it all down, I find three things:

    1. The militia was never considered to be synonymous with either the Navy or the Army (or in more modern times, Coast Guard, Air Force, and soon to be Space Force).

    2. Formal state militias are certainly consistent with the Constitutional definition.

    3. Many considered "every able-bodied man" and some even "man, woman, and child" to be a part of the militia.

    I suppose a most interesting question might be, "Do you consider yourself a part of the militia, and if so, of which part and in what capacity?"
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Depends on whether or not I deemed the state I reside in worth defending. Would a militiamen defend California for example. Being that i am from South Carolina...my family has defended the state from foreign aggression...and Northern Aggression.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Depends on whether or not I deemed the state I reside in worth defending. Would a militiamen defend California for example. Being that i am from South Carolina...my family has defended the state from foreign aggression...and Northern Aggression.
    Must agree, my ancestors literally settled the Buckeye state, yet I personally have no interest to toddle up to defend the state if the hoards of Wolfverines or Canucks invade.

    Perhaps I shall just be like cassius clay used to say, ‘Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee!’ and float quietly keeping my ever watchful eye surveying the horizon, then pounce and ‘sting’ those who transgress.
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    Regular Member protias's Avatar
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    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member CJ4wd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    The second comes from the Militia Act of 1903, which breaks it down into two categories:

    Organized militia – consisting of State militia forces; notably, the National Guard and Naval Militia.[8] (Note: the National Guard is not to be confused with the National Guard of the United States.)

    Unorganized militia – composing the Reserve Militia: every able-bodied man of at least 17 and under 45 years of age, not a member of the National Guard or Naval Militia

    The third comes from the writings of our Founding Fathers, where it's definition varies depending on who's doing the writing. This link, for example, mentions "militia" some 58 times.

    Boiling it all down, I find three things:

    1. The militia was never considered to be synonymous with either the Navy or the Army (or in more modern times, Coast Guard, Air Force, and soon to be Space Force).

    2. Formal state militias are certainly consistent with the Constitutional definition.

    3. Many considered "every able-bodied man" and some even "man, woman, and child" to be a part of the militia.

    I suppose a most interesting question might be, "Do you consider yourself a part of the militia, and if so, of which part and in what capacity?"

    As I am past "45 years", I no longer qualify under that definition. However, in the event of riots in my area (think L.A. or Ferguson), I would have no problem taking up arms to defend my property and my neighbors from the mobs or even roving gangs.
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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJ4wd View Post
    As I am past "45 years", I no longer qualify under that definition. However, in the event of riots in my area (think L.A. or Ferguson), I would have no problem taking up arms to defend my property and my neighbors from the mobs or even roving gangs.
    Somewhere, I think here, I recall reading one of our Founding Fathers mentioning that he considered the militia to be every man, woman, and child capable of bearing arms.
    On trolls: It is to one's honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrel (Pro 20:3) // Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels (2 Tim 2:23) // An angry person stirs up conflict, and a hot-tempered person commits many sins (Pro 29:22) // I came here to build Pro-2A consensus to help our country, not trade insults like a fifth-grader. If you're on ignore, well, now you know why.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Yepper, me and my neighbors...if theirs goes up in flames mine is next. It worked in Ferguson, for those businesses that had armed citizens protecting their property, as Missouri statute recognizes is our right. Those who did not protect their property, relying upon local LEAs it seems, learnt a valuable lesson...perhaps.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)
    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Somewhere, I think here, I recall reading one of our Founding Fathers mentioning that he considered the militia to be every man, woman, and child capable of bearing arms.
    I've already posted that.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that, if you carry a DDForm 2(retired), you are not a member of the militia, but are a member of the Retired Reserve. There are age limits as to when you may be called back to active duty, but I, for one, could not see myself refusing such a call. There would have to be some outrageous misconduct on the part of the government.
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    I'm in the disorganized militia.

    If it ever came to such, I would be one of the old guys who would know he could only get off so many shots before being killed, so make them count.

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    Regular Member JTHunter2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Yepper, me and my neighbors...if theirs goes up in flames mine is next. It worked in Ferguson, for those businesses that had armed citizens protecting their property, as Missouri statute recognizes is our right. Those who did not protect their property, relying upon local LEAs it seems, learnt a valuable lesson...perhaps.
    IIRC, it also worked in LA during the Rodney King riots. In fact, some shop owners were on their roof and were still able to some adjacent stores where the owners didn't have the capability to defend their stores.
    “Crime is to be expected since humans are never perfect. But the failure of Justice may be more damaging to Society than the crime itself.” - - Clarence Darrow

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that, if you carry a DDForm 2(retired), you are not a member of the militia, but are a member of the Retired Reserve.
    That's a matter of some debate. My personal take on it is that it's not an either-or situation. The two options are not mutually exclusive. One's status in the Retired Reserve only comes into play when one is recalled to active duty.

    Until then, however, retiree rank is largely honorary. For most intents and purposes, retirees are civilians. They're as free to do what any law-abiding citizen may do, including participating in either organized or unorganized militias.

    There's where the waters get a little muddy with respect to which organizations are federal, which are organized, which are unorganized, and which ones within these three categories are specifically sanctioned by Title 10, or merely state laws.

    I'd love to see a clear chart delineating all the categories and relationships. Perhaps I'll make one myself.

    There are age limits as to when you may be called back to active duty, but I, for one, could not see myself refusing such a call.
    If you're a retiree and under 64 years of age and a former member of the Regular Army/Navy/Air Force/Marine Corps, it may be optional in peacetime, but not during a widespread activation.

    There would have to be some outrageous misconduct on the part of the government.
    Indeed.

    The current United States Code, Title 10 (Armed forces), section 246 (Militia: Composition and Classes), paragraph (a) states: "The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard." Section 313 of Title 32 refers to persons with prior military experience. ("Sec. 313. Appointments and enlistments: age limitation (a) To be eligible for original enlistment in the National Guard, a person must be at least 17 years of age and under 45, or under 64 years of age and a former member of the Regular Army, Regular Navy, Regular Air Force, or Regular Marine Corps. To be eligible for reenlistment, a person must be under 64 years of age. (b) To be eligible for appointment as an officer of the National Guard, a person must – (1) be a citizen of the United States; and (2) be at least 18 years of age and under 64.")

    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    I'm in the disorganized militia.
    Lol, and then there's that.

    If it ever came to such, I would be one of the old guys who would know he could only get off so many shots before being killed, so make them count.
    I have no idea where I'd be sent.
    On trolls: It is to one's honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrel (Pro 20:3) // Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels (2 Tim 2:23) // An angry person stirs up conflict, and a hot-tempered person commits many sins (Pro 29:22) // I came here to build Pro-2A consensus to help our country, not trade insults like a fifth-grader. If you're on ignore, well, now you know why.

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