Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Tulsa Gathering Place Park Good News

  1. #1
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Lawton, OK USA
    Posts
    2,024

    Tulsa Gathering Place Park Good News

    https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/gath...22b1e97af.html

    "Title 21, Section 1277, of Oklahoma Statutes has an exception allowing for the carry of legally licensed concealed or unconcealed handguns on “any property designated by a city, town, county or state governmental authority as a park, recreational area or fairgrounds.”

    "The Tulsa Police Department will not be required to enforce a Gathering Place policy that bans open and concealed carry of firearms on its premises, according to the City Attorney’s Office."
    "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
    "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux

  2. #2
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,604
    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/gath...22b1e97af.html

    "Title 21, Section 1277, of Oklahoma Statutes has an exception allowing for the carry of legally licensed concealed or unconcealed handguns on “any property designated by a city, town, county or state governmental authority as a park, recreational area or fairgrounds.”

    "The Tulsa Police Department will not be required to enforce a Gathering Place policy that bans open and concealed carry of firearms on its premises, according to the City Attorney’s Office."
    Alas, goldgigger14, ‘any property designated by a...’ governmental entity, but the gathering place was a privately funded way to obtain a tax deduction by those rich folk in the Tulsa area and from the article it does not seem the city has control over the area. [especially since the have their own security force on the site].

    quote from the article...

    “We [Tulsa police spokesperson] maintain the legal authority to enforce all ordinances and state laws applicable to private spaces open to the public,” MacKenzie said in a prepared statement.
    The department, however, does not enforce park rules, she said.

    “Gathering Place has its own private security that officers assist on several matters, but (police) do not have anything to do with their rules,” she said.

    The city attorney said Gathering Place officials acknowledged that “a court case” would ultimately be required to determine whether the firearm ban could legally be enforced.” Unquote.

    Might be better to organize a boycott but consider the back lash from the anti’s and JQPublic might significantly increase attendance.

    Last edited by solus; 10-20-2018 at 06:04 AM.
    I cannot allow your ignorance, however great, to take precedence over my knowledge, however small. Bacon’s great-grandson.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  3. #3
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,950
    The article does a pitiful job of explaining (or linking to) just what kind of entity “Gathering Place” actually is.

    Cites of relevant information on that topic would be of great help.

  4. #4
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,604
    From the RiverParks Authority [https://www.riverparks.org/parks-inf...ules-and-faqs/] under the question about Gathering Place,

    Tulsa’s Gathering Place is a separate and special park for everyone originally owned by a subsidiary of the George Kaiser Family Foundation which was gifted to the River Parks Authority.

    Management and operation of the park was retained by a GKFF subsidiary, GGP Parks, LLC.

    Owned by a foundation and ran by said foundation.

    [sidebar about Tulsa’s RiverParks authority ~ same cite,
    River Parks Authority is a public trust authority created to develop and maintain the public park lands along the Arkansas River in Tulsa County. In Tulsa, there are three separate public park agencies: River Parks Authority, the City of Tulsa Parks Department, and the Tulsa County Park Department.]
    I cannot allow your ignorance, however great, to take precedence over my knowledge, however small. Bacon’s great-grandson.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  5. #5
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,836
    http://www.news9.com/story/39045203/...athering-place
    TULSA, Oklahoma - Tulsa's Gathering Place opens to the public Saturday morning and many are asking about park security.

    Park officials say Gathering Place will have security 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

    There are more than 100 cameras scattered throughout the park, focusing on areas where the largest number of people will gather, including parking lots and the playground.

    On a typical day there will be one officer watching cameras and three to five walking around the park. On big event days, they'll add more security with the help of private firms and the Tulsa Police Department.
    Everything I have read, this is a public park.

    http://www.oscn.net/applications/osc...p?CiteID=69745
    Title 21 - Chapter 53 - Section 1277 UNLAWFUL CARRY IN CERTAIN PLACES
    B. For purposes of subsection A of this section, the prohibited place does not include and specifically excludes the following property:
    4. Any property designated by a city, town, county or state governmental authority as a park, recreational area, or fairgrounds; provided, nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to authorize any entry by a person in possession of a concealed or unconcealed handgun into any structure, building or office space which is specifically prohibited by the provisions of subsection A of this section;

  6. #6
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,604
    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    snippp...

    Everything I have read, this is a public park.

    Snippp...
    Hummm, CoL, might I direct your kind attention to my earlier post which state the Tulsa RiverPark Authority is not in managerial control of the Gathering Place but the “foundation” is!

    Therefore CoL, which governmental entity has declared this property a park, especially since no governmental entity has control over said property?

    Further concept, it does not appear no governmental entity has fiscal budgetary responsibility for the property.

    IMHO, when someone ‘gifts’ something to someone, the ‘gifting’ activity [not lease btw] would signify the gifter relinquishs all rights to the gift itself; but I guess if you have enough money, status, etc., you can take your mega deductions and ‘gift’ the property, and still maintain exclusive control over it!
    I cannot allow your ignorance, however great, to take precedence over my knowledge, however small. Bacon’s great-grandson.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  7. #7
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,836
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    Hummm, CoL, might I direct your kind attention to my earlier post which state the Tulsa RiverPark Authority is not in managerial control of the Gathering Place but the “foundation” is!

    Therefore CoL, which governmental entity has declared this property a park, especially since no governmental entity has control over said property?

    Further concept, it does not appear no governmental entity has fiscal budgetary responsibility for the property.

    IMHO, when someone ‘gifts’ something to someone, the ‘gifting’ activity [not lease btw] would signify the gifter relinquishs all rights to the gift itself; but I guess if you have enough money, status, etc., you can take your mega deductions and ‘gift’ the property, and still maintain exclusive control over it!
    Let me help you out. First, go to this link: https://www.riverparks.org/parks-inf...ublic-notices/

    Go down to "Tulsa’s Gathering Place, LLC" and open the first "Notice." Look at the upper left hand corner. What does it say????

    If the LLC was private you wouldn't even know about their meetings. But, they are government controlled and public notice is required. Who is the notice filed with?

    Just say'n.

  8. #8
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,604
    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Let me help you out. First, go to this link: https://www.riverparks.org/parks-inf...ublic-notices/

    Go down to "Tulsa’s Gathering Place, LLC" and open the first "Notice." Look at the upper left hand corner. What does it say????

    If the LLC was private you wouldn't even know about their meetings. But, they are government controlled and public notice is required. Who is the notice filed with?

    Just say'n.
    Hummm...did my esteemed collegue open any and all of the gathering park’s minutes and compare them to the riverpark authority minutes? They are basically blank, devoid of any substance held in the board room of the ‘foundation’ and not under the auspices of the riverpark authority’s meetings?

    and of course the ‘foundation’ has LLC’d their interests to provide liability to their ‘park’ interests, wouldn’t you?

    ‘IF’ covers a myriad of sins in regards to multi $$$$ deductions now doesn’t it! Cuz ‘IF’ the gathering place were under the direct contol of riverparks authority’s auspices, why a separate board meeting?

    Apparently, there is contrary info in the riverpark authority’s web page(s) regarding management of Tulsa’s gathering place.

    So, guess we are both only speculating until a couple of,fone calls to riverpark authority and the ‘foundation’ can be made on the morrow.
    Last edited by solus; 10-21-2018 at 05:43 PM.
    I cannot allow your ignorance, however great, to take precedence over my knowledge, however small. Bacon’s great-grandson.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  9. #9
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,836
    Three questions to them that will determine their character. Are they subject to the Oklahoma open records act. Who do the employees work for- the LLC or park service? And, does the park receive any tax dollars in any why, shape or form?

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    northern wis
    Posts
    3,014
    More info for you guys.

    https://www.ammoland.com/2018/10/okl...zone-in-tulsa/



    The Gathering Place, a 66.5 acre park in Tulsa, Oklahoma, attempted to ban the exercise of Second Amendment rights in the park, contrary to state law. Tulsa police will not enforce the ban
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

  11. #11
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,836
    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    More info for you guys.

    https://www.ammoland.com/2018/10/okl...zone-in-tulsa/



    The Gathering Place, a 66.5 acre park in Tulsa, Oklahoma, attempted to ban the exercise of Second Amendment rights in the park, contrary to state law. Tulsa police will not enforce the ban
    Thanks for the article. The article makes it clear that the city does not want this ownership issue to see the light of day. Any kind of lawsuit involves discovery. Discovery could discover more than who owns the park.

  12. #12
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,604
    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Thanks for the article. The article makes it clear that the city does not want this ownership issue to see the light of day. Any kind of lawsuit involves discovery. Discovery could discover more than who owns the park.
    In my humblest tone towards SW OHIO... H M M M M M M, R E A L L Y ?
    I cannot allow your ignorance, however great, to take precedence over my knowledge, however small. Bacon’s great-grandson.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Central Ky.
    Posts
    424
    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Three questions to them that will determine their character. Are they subject to the Oklahoma open records act. Who do the employees work for- the LLC or park service? And, does the park receive any tax dollars in any why, shape or form?
    It may be tough to get a usable answer to any of those questions. In my opinion, a better idea is to just send them a request for open records on some benign and unrelated matter and see if they respond. If they respond, they must be a public entity. If they refuse to supply the requested documents, they will have to explain why they are exempt.

    I did this very thing with the Louisville Water Co. and received the documents that I requested. Later, when I approached the CEO about their ban on firearms, he claimed that they were a private company. I asked why they responded to open records requests and he had no answer. Gotcha! Their gun ban is gone.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Glock 1st fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    312
    Quiet simply the law states any place designated by a city, county or state entity to be a public park shall not prohibit firearms. The park was designated by the city of Tulsa to a be a public park that was gifted to a private entity. In short even the city states that it is designated as a public park.
    Full Supporter of the second Amendment!

    Be careful seeking advice on Forums pertaining to law. Bad advice is often given from people who do not know or understand the law. Always read the law yourself and if you do not understand seek legal advice from a qualified legal expert. Following online advice can land you in legal trouble.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •