Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Firearms Safety is Key to our Continued Freedoms

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,678

    Firearms Safety is Key to our Continued Freedoms

    An aunt with good intentions but poor training accidentally shot her niece while giving her a "firearms lesson."

    It's mistakes like these that stir the kooks nest from which all manner of restrictive legislation spews forth.

    Please UNLOAD YOUR GUNS before any and all "lessons." Use snap-caps for dry fire. The ONLY place you should EVER be handling your loaded weapon is to holster it, unload it, or to fire it. Loaded weapons are NEVER to be used for training at any location EXCEPT THE RANGE, and then, only in accordance with strict range procedures.

    Same goes for hunting. We never loaded until we'd:
    1. Spotted our quarry
    2. Verified that it's actually our quarry
    3. Cleared our line of fire, both between ourselves and our quarry as well as far beyond and to either side. Ricochets are Real.
    On trolls: It is to one's honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrel (Pro 20:3) // Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels (2 Tim 2:23) // An angry person stirs up conflict, and a hot-tempered person commits many sins (Pro 29:22) // I came here to build Pro-2A consensus to help our country, not trade insults like a fifth-grader. If you're on ignore, well, now you know why.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Pa
    Posts
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    An aunt with good intentions but poor training accidentally shot her niece while giving her a "firearms lesson."

    It's mistakes like these that stir the kooks nest from which all manner of restrictive legislation spews forth.

    Please UNLOAD YOUR GUNS before any and all "lessons." Use snap-caps for dry fire. The ONLY place you should EVER be handling your loaded weapon is to holster it, unload it, or to fire it. Loaded weapons are NEVER to be used for training at any location EXCEPT THE RANGE, and then, only in accordance with strict range procedures.

    Same goes for hunting. We never loaded until we'd:
    1. Spotted our quarry
    2. Verified that it's actually our quarry
    3. Cleared our line of fire, both between ourselves and our quarry as well as far beyond and to either side. Ricochets are Real.
    The grand kids do not care for hunting; but they enjoy the range. They are well aware, a firearm is unforgiving; and there are mistakes you can only make once. I try to find the range ( very small local range ) unoccupied, so I can focus on teaching the kids. Do I trust them completely, of course not; they are still young & have miles to go; but they do listen to me. Not just listen, they hear me. Only a 100 yard range; so long distance shooting - practice is not possible; but local abandoned strip mines do work well.
    Last edited by Jimsouth; 10-10-2018 at 12:40 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    11,813
    I hate to be a Richard, but sometimes I can't help it. The constitution is the key to our continued freedom.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,678
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimsouth View Post
    The grand kids do not care for hunting; but they enjoy the range. They are well aware, a firearm is unforgiving; and there are mistakes you can only make once. I try to find the range ( very small local range ) unoccupied, so I can focus on teaching the kids. Do I trust them completely, of course not; they are still young & have miles to go; but they do listen to me. Not just listen, they hear me. Only a 100 yard range; so long distance shooting - practice is not possible; but local abandoned strip mines do work well.
    That's a great approach, Jimsouth. It's difficult to teach anyone, much less kids, in the middle of a ruckus.

    As for trusting kids, it's indeed a risk. When I first taught my son to shoot, I stood right there alongside him, making absolutely certain his aim did not waiver from downrange until his magazine was empty, removed, slide back, and firearm laid on the mat -- still pointing downrange. It's the way my father taught me, and he learned firearms safety from his father, born in 1902, grew up on an Iowa farm, and hunted rabbits and birds to and from grade school with his .410 shotgun.

    I still have it. It's an absolutely beautiful piece, in it's rugged simplicity, and I fired it a few times when I was a kid, but I'd never fired it now, knowing what I know about the metallurgy of the time. It's probably safe, but the quality control was a bit lacking and it's much more valuable to me as a collection piece, not for any resale value, but rather, for its intrinsic value, knowing that my grandfather carried it to elementary and high school on a regular basis, along with the other kids, because that's how they put food on their table and defended themselves.

    He parked it in the corner of his single-building classroom along with the guns of the other kids, unloaded. He said, "Teacher's rules." Rural Iowa wasn't exactly unexplored territory back in 1911, and while he was the ninth kid in a farming family, meat was often scarce, unless you caught it yourself. He once told me his mom (my great grandmother) mandated a "share half, eat half" rule which she implemented with a very firm hand, as he had six brothers and two sisters. She wasn't above using force to keep his upstart brothers in line, and his father (my great-grandfather) wasn't above decking anyone who refused to respect her.

    As a result, they ALL grew up to be very hard-working, very successful, and mostly well-educated people. Of my grandfather's bunch, there were two doctors, two veterinarians, and one married into a Railroad Magnate's family. The vast majority of my grandfather's "wealth," if you could call it that, was by the sweat of his brow, mostly as a traveling salesman. Hearing various stories, including watching him as a kid, I surmise he worked his butt off.

    Getting back to firearms...

    The difference between 100 yrd and 300 yrd ranges is one of elevation and windage. You can teach both at a 100 yard range and the lessons will most certainly indeed translate to further distances. Other effects, such as allowing for variations in shooter altitude, temperature, relative humidity, and their effects on density altitude, are subjects for advance study, and, if mastered with a lot of practice, can afford an expert marksman with the right equipment to place shots at distances to a mile and beyond.

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I hate to be a Richard, but sometimes I can't help it. The constitution is the key to our continued freedom.
    I hear you, WW, but the Constitution itself is merely the foundation. As such, it's only one of many keys required to maintain our continued freedom. Education, including both American and World History, is another. Civics, involving detailed information on how our government actually works is a third. Just the other day, I listed to AOC (Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez) piping off about changing something in the Constitution either without realizing what that would actually require, or more likely, knowing full well what that would actually require but merely using that as a way to fool simpleton Demoncraps who might bite off on that, saying, "Yeah! Sounds really cool! Less money for the wealthy and more money stolen from them to put into my pocket!"

    So, the Keys:
    - Constitution - After all, it is "the supreme Law of the Land," and ignorance thereof has created more problems...
    - American History - Ibid.
    - World History - "Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are bound to repeat them." Dear, Lord: Please let our modern society succeed in teaching even the hardest lessons of history to our youth so that we can NEVER repeat the lessons of history.
    - Apathy, as in "Anti-Apathy" being a huge key in getting voters out to actually do what they do best, which is vote.
    - Education I - This catch-all includes pretty much everything not covered in the other categories. Various organizations and entities have continuously usurped public education to indoctrinate our youth over the generations, beginning shortly before I was born, but certainly continuing to this day.
    - Education II - This includes every Reading, Writing, Math, Science, and the many other classes for which We the People forfeit VAST sums of money (roughly $9,000 per graduating senior) in order that they be educated to a level such that they do NOT repeat the mistakes of the past, but instead, pick up where we left off.

    Now, WalkingWolf, does this reassessment of the multitudinous nature of our future "keys" meet with your approval? By all means, if you'd like to add any critical areas I've overlooked, please do! I welcome your input.
    Last edited by since9; 10-17-2018 at 03:41 AM.
    On trolls: It is to one's honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrel (Pro 20:3) // Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels (2 Tim 2:23) // An angry person stirs up conflict, and a hot-tempered person commits many sins (Pro 29:22) // I came here to build Pro-2A consensus to help our country, not trade insults like a fifth-grader. If you're on ignore, well, now you know why.

  5. #5
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    11,362
    A uninterpreted constitution is the key to our continued freedoms. The courts are the greatest single threat to the US Constitution. When "shall not be infringed" requires nuanced thinking to be "correctly interpreted" you know that the courts are anti-individual liberty.

    The courts are not here to adjudicate the application of the laws with respect to the constitution they are here to ensure the survival of the governmental bureaucracy...nothing more and nothing less. Proof you say? Qualified Immunity is all the evidence you need. Don't get me started on absolute immunity for judges.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    northern wis
    Posts
    3,014
    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    An aunt with good intentions but poor training accidentally shot her niece while giving her a "firearms lesson."

    It's mistakes like these that stir the kooks nest from which all manner of restrictive legislation spews forth.

    Please UNLOAD YOUR GUNS before any and all "lessons." Use snap-caps for dry fire. The ONLY place you should EVER be handling your loaded weapon is to holster it, unload it, or to fire it. Loaded weapons are NEVER to be used for training at any location EXCEPT THE RANGE, and then, only in accordance with strict range procedures.

    Same goes for hunting. We never loaded until we'd:
    1. Spotted our quarry
    2. Verified that it's actually our quarry
    3. Cleared our line of fire, both between ourselves and our quarry as well as far beyond and to either side. Ricochets are Real.
    Sorry your wrong firearm accidents have been dropping for decades.

    It does not matter to the anti's.

    There goal is disarmament they well lie cheat, steal and dam the facts.

    We could be crime and accident free and they well still claim that the citizenship needs to be disarmed.

    It is the goal that matters not the facts.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,678
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    A uninterpreted constitution is the key to our continued freedoms.
    Oh, come on, people. Please don't take my comments out of context.

    I wasn't talking about all our freedoms, OC for ME. In fact, I specifically mentioned "restrictive legislation" in conjunction with negligent discharges.

    The courts are the greatest single threat to the US Constitution.
    I would argue it's the voters who elect those judges who are directly elected, as well as the voters who elect those in the executive and legislative branches who appoint those judges who are appointed.

    It's the voters in both cases. They're the problem.

    When "shall not be infringed" requires nuanced thinking to be "correctly interpreted" you know that the courts are anti-individual liberty.
    Undoubtedly. Regardless, off-topic.

    The courts are not here to adjudicate the application of the laws with respect to the constitution they are here to ensure the survival of the governmental bureaucracy...nothing more and nothing less. Proof you say? Qualified Immunity is all the evidence you need. Don't get me started on absolute immunity for judges.
    While this certainly holds in some situations, in other situations the courts have pierced QI and held law enforcement responsible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Sorry your wrong firearm accidents have been dropping for decades.
    The fact that firearms accident rates have been dropping in no way negates either the anti's reaction calling for increased legislation or the need for firearms safety.

    When in doubt, please use logic. This will help you avoid false statements like "your (SIC) wrong" followed by a non-sequitur."

    It does not matter to the anti's. ... There goal is disarmament they well lie cheat, steal and dam the facts. ... We could be crime and accident free and they well still claim that the citizenship needs to be disarmed. ... It is the goal that matters not the facts.
    All good points, none of which negate the reality that negligence gives them ammunition which they can, will, and have used against us.
    On trolls: It is to one's honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrel (Pro 20:3) // Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels (2 Tim 2:23) // An angry person stirs up conflict, and a hot-tempered person commits many sins (Pro 29:22) // I came here to build Pro-2A consensus to help our country, not trade insults like a fifth-grader. If you're on ignore, well, now you know why.

  8. #8
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    11,362
    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    ... It's mistakes like these that stir the kooks nest from which all manner of restrictive legislation spews forth. ...
    Indeed.

    Search Result: Accidental Discharges: https://www.policemag.com/list/tag/a...ischarges.aspx

    Causes and cures for the negligent discharge: https://www.policeone.com/police-pro...ent-discharge/

    Negligent Discharges: Preventable or Inevitable? https://www.officer.com/tactical/fir...-or-inevitable

    Accidental Discharge From a Firearm: https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/...harge-firearm/

    I wonder if any of these incidents have lead to restrictive legislation. I suspect not...thanks to corrupt prosecutors and unaccountable judges.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  9. #9
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont
    Posts
    2,415
    In Virginia, both accidental and negligent discharges generally result in a criminal charge of "reckless handling of a firearm". Recklessness is not the same as "accidental", and not the same as "negligent", but most criminal defense attorneys, in my experience, have no clue that these words are not interchangeable. Most, in fact, assume, along with the prosecution, that if a gun goes off, it must be a criminal act, because guns are inherently evil. Here's my take on it: "reckless" means "having a criminal indifference to whether or not one's behavior represents a serious and immediate threat to life, limb, or property", and is a substitute for "mens rea" (criminal intent); "accidental" means random, unforeseeable, and unpreventable incidents resulting from the acts of third parties, acts of God, and natural phenomena (e.g., lightning strikes); and "negligent" means mere carelessness, a failure to attend to a known legal duty by action or omission. Neither negligence nor accidents are sufficient to prove recklessness beyond a reasonable doubt.
    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  10. #10
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,836
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    In Virginia, both accidental and negligent discharges generally result in a criminal charge of "reckless handling of a firearm". Recklessness is not the same as "accidental", and not the same as "negligent", but most criminal defense attorneys, in my experience, have no clue that these words are not interchangeable. Most, in fact, assume, along with the prosecution, that if a gun goes off, it must be a criminal act, because guns are inherently evil. Here's my take on it: "reckless" means "having a criminal indifference to whether or not one's behavior represents a serious and immediate threat to life, limb, or property", and is a substitute for "mens rea" (criminal intent); "accidental" means random, unforeseeable, and unpreventable incidents resulting from the acts of third parties, acts of God, and natural phenomena (e.g., lightning strikes); and "negligent" means mere carelessness, a failure to attend to a known legal duty by action or omission. Neither negligence nor accidents are sufficient to prove recklessness beyond a reasonable doubt.
    As I have asked/said many times on this forum; what are the three most important things in law? Answer; definition, definition, definition.

    I was just proof reading a Petition for Writ of Certiorari to the U.S. supreme court. The brief quoted the officer as saying the security guard wanted the defendant arrested. The brief said the security guard requested the defendant be arrested. The synonym of want is demand, not request. Using the word requested undermined the very argument the attorney was trying to convey. Words are powerful. Use them to your advantage.

    I was in a six hour deposition a couple of years ago. The first attorney asked questions for four hours. He was totally pi$$ed off because I would make him define certain words in his questions. He would keep saying "you know what I mean." I would respond with "no, I don't what you mean." It got him to a point of rephrasing most of his questions. I would then answer by defining the word as I understood the word to mean. The other attorneys were pretty much tongue-tied for the last two hours. Attorneys also don't like the answer to their questions as "asked, and answered."

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,678
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Indeed.

    Search Result: Accidental Discharges: https://www.policemag.com/list/tag/a...ischarges.aspx
    Causes and cures for the negligent discharge: https://www.policeone.com/police-pro...ent-discharge/
    Negligent Discharges: Preventable or Inevitable? https://www.officer.com/tactical/fir...-or-inevitable
    Accidental Discharge From a Firearm: https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/...harge-firearm/
    Between 1900 and around 1991, restrictive gun control laws steadily increased.

    So did crime (violent crime rate per capita aka 100,000 persons).

    At some point, probably around 1968, We the People began pouring on the coals pointing out to our legislators how their ill-considered restrictions restricted law-abiding citizens, not criminals.

    As a result, sometime within about two decades, gun control legislation diminished in its restrictiveness while crime dropped (violent crime rate per capita aka 100,000 persons).



    I wonder if any of these incidents have lead to restrictive legislation. I suspect not...thanks to corrupt prosecutors and unaccountable judges.
    Whether any specific incident lead to more restrictive legislation is immaterial.

    What's material is whether public perception of firearms danger as a whole lead to more restrictive legislation.
    On trolls: It is to one's honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrel (Pro 20:3) // Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels (2 Tim 2:23) // An angry person stirs up conflict, and a hot-tempered person commits many sins (Pro 29:22) // I came here to build Pro-2A consensus to help our country, not trade insults like a fifth-grader. If you're on ignore, well, now you know why.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,678
    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    As I have asked/said many times on this forum; what are the three most important things in law? Answer; definition, definition, definition.

    I was just proof reading a Petition for Writ of Certiorari to the U.S. supreme court. The brief quoted the officer as saying the security guard wanted the defendant arrested. The brief said the security guard requested the defendant be arrested. The synonym of want is demand, not request.
    In what dictionary?

    Want is more synonymous with desire, not demand.
    I want my kid to mow the yard is not synonymous with I demand my kid to mow the yard.
    I wanted to win the MegaMillions lottery is not synonymous with I demanded to win the MegaMillions lottery.

    [quote]Words are powerful. Use them to your advantage.

    I was in a six hour deposition a couple of years ago. The first attorney asked questions for four hours. He was totally pi$$ed off because I would make him define certain words in his questions. He would keep saying "you know what I mean." I would respond with "no, I don't what you mean." It got him to a point of rephrasing most of his questions. I would then answer by defining the word as I understood the word to mean. The other attorneys were pretty much tongue-tied for the last two hours. Attorneys also don't like the answer to their questions as "asked, and answered."
    I would have handed you my copy of the Merriam-Webster Dictionary and bought another...

    On second thought, knowing that you might pick a different one of multiple definitions, I would have handed you a printed copy and a magic marker and asked you to highlight every word you didn't understand. If the number of words you highlighted were reasonable in number, I would have provided definitions, right out of Merriam-Webster for non-legal terms and cited legal texts or state-defined legal terms where applicable.

    If you highlighted everything, I would object on grounds of unreasonableness, gross misuse of the court's time, etc.
    On trolls: It is to one's honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrel (Pro 20:3) // Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels (2 Tim 2:23) // An angry person stirs up conflict, and a hot-tempered person commits many sins (Pro 29:22) // I came here to build Pro-2A consensus to help our country, not trade insults like a fifth-grader. If you're on ignore, well, now you know why.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,678
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    In Virginia, both accidental and negligent discharges generally result in a criminal charge of "reckless handling of a firearm". Recklessness is not the same as "accidental", and not the same as "negligent", but most criminal defense attorneys, in my experience, have no clue that these words are not interchangeable. Most, in fact, assume, along with the prosecution, that if a gun goes off, it must be a criminal act, because guns are inherently evil. Here's my take on it: "reckless" means "having a criminal indifference to whether or not one's behavior represents a serious and immediate threat to life, limb, or property", and is a substitute for "mens rea" (criminal intent); "accidental" means random, unforeseeable, and unpreventable incidents resulting from the acts of third parties, acts of God, and natural phenomena (e.g., lightning strikes); and "negligent" means mere carelessness, a failure to attend to a known legal duty by action or omission. Neither negligence nor accidents are sufficient to prove recklessness beyond a reasonable doubt.
    WELL SAID.

    On one flight, just after we'd started all four engines, Command Post radioed us with directions to shut down immediately, which we did. Turns out, the maintenance troop had failed to conduct a proper tool check. His immediate supervisor did one, found a tool missing, queried the mechanic, and when he didn't like the mechanic's answer, he immediately called the maintenance officer on the brick who called Command Post who called us.

    Good thing, too, as he'd left a wrench in a wet bay in the wing. Who knows what five hours of heavy vibration between the stainless steel tool and tank would have done in the presence of air and fuel.

    The maintenance troop was negligent in failing to conduct a tool count, but he was reckless in the dismissive answer he gave his supervisor.

    Back to guns. By leaving a round in the chamber, hammer down, safety off, some might argue that's "negligent," whereas I would argue the presence of a firing pin interlock, a retention holster that blocks access to the trigger and my training, all three facts to which I gave serious consideration in the selection and handling of my firearm over the years, negate any claims of negligence as being irrational, and I have literally dozens of directives from the military, law enforcement agencies, advice from industry experts substantiating that mode of carry as both legitimate and non-negligent.
    On trolls: It is to one's honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrel (Pro 20:3) // Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels (2 Tim 2:23) // An angry person stirs up conflict, and a hot-tempered person commits many sins (Pro 29:22) // I came here to build Pro-2A consensus to help our country, not trade insults like a fifth-grader. If you're on ignore, well, now you know why.

  14. #14
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,604
    Since9, since your crime chart is comprised of statistical nonsense per se., as there is absolutely no background as to the verifiable source or validity associated with the data, and yet your pontification as gospel in your post is based on the unverifiable statistical data presented...

    [sidebar, data chart show is from ‘run your own country’ website without reference to origin of data, collection methodology, validation of data, etc.]

    Lies, damn lies and statistics...so much for ethical presentation from the professed statistician.
    Last edited by solus; 10-24-2018 at 07:24 AM.
    I cannot allow your ignorance, however great, to take precedence over my knowledge, however small. Bacon’s great-grandson.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  15. #15
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    11,362
    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    ... Whether any specific incident lead to more restrictive legislation is immaterial.

    What's material is whether public perception of firearms danger as a whole lead to more restrictive legislation.
    By definition, a ND is negligence in action. The question of criminal liability after a ND, as user illustrates (if I read his comments correctly), is routinely decided by prosecutors and judges...if it gets past the cop shop that is.

    Not sure what violent crime statistics have to do with NDs given the title of this thread.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  16. #16
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,836
    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    In what dictionary?

    Want is more synonymous with desire, not demand.
    I want my kid to mow the yard is not synonymous with I demand my kid to mow the yard.
    I wanted to win the MegaMillions lottery is not synonymous with I demanded to win the MegaMillions lottery.

    ....
    All words may have different connotations based on their meaning.

    My legal Thesaurus gives one of the synonyms for "want" as "require." Synonym for "require" is "demand."

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,678
    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    All words may have different connotations based on their meaning.
    That's akin to saying, "The bicycle is chartreuse because it's a lime-green."

    This would be more clear: "All words may have different connotations based on their context."

    My legal Thesaurus gives one of the synonyms for "want" as "require." Synonym for "require" is "demand."

    A synonym of a synonym can veer way out of context, and yours is a prime example.
    On trolls: It is to one's honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrel (Pro 20:3) // Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels (2 Tim 2:23) // An angry person stirs up conflict, and a hot-tempered person commits many sins (Pro 29:22) // I came here to build Pro-2A consensus to help our country, not trade insults like a fifth-grader. If you're on ignore, well, now you know why.

  18. #18
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,836
    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    That's akin to saying, "The bicycle is chartreuse because it's a lime-green."

    This would be more clear: "All words may have different connotations based on their context."




    A synonym of a synonym can veer way out of context, and yours is a prime example.
    Synonyms of "want" are:
    need
    wish
    appetite
    craving
    demand
    fancy
    hankering
    hunger
    longing
    necessity
    requirement
    thirst
    yearning
    yen

    I want him arrested. Is that a wish or a demand? Based on the context of the sentence, "want" is a "demand."

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,678
    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Synonyms..
    You can come up with a million synonyms and it still wouldn't matter, as you're still taking it out of context.

    Context, color of law. Context. It only has one meaning in the context in which it was written.
    On trolls: It is to one's honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrel (Pro 20:3) // Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels (2 Tim 2:23) // An angry person stirs up conflict, and a hot-tempered person commits many sins (Pro 29:22) // I came here to build Pro-2A consensus to help our country, not trade insults like a fifth-grader. If you're on ignore, well, now you know why.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •