Nuget denies VA gun ticket holders permission to carry at Berglung Center concert

solus · Jul 19, 2018

http://thehill.com/homenews/397608-ted-nugent-bars-guns-from-his-concert-in-last-minute-switch

Quote:
Musician Ted Nugent, a vocal gun rights advocate, reportedly barred guns from being allowed into a venue he performed at in Virginia on Tuesday night.

A sub-contract between Nugent and his promoter regarding open carry was shared with Berglund Center management right before the performance, according to NBC."It happened about five minutes before we opened doors. We had a security meeting before we opened doors and the subject came up and we said, 'Yes people will be bringing firearms,'" Berglund Center General Manager Robyn Schon told NBC.
According to Schon, Nugent's team said, "Uh, no, our agreement says no.'" Unquote

OMG, the world is self destructing, first Cohen poking humor now Nugent says no firearms at his concert even where allowed by local ordinances.

woe is...

Grapeshot · Jul 19, 2018

Even our "friends" get it wrong sometimes...

WalkingWolf · Jul 19, 2018

Alcohol, and guns don't mix, even FBI agents. Rock concerts are known for drunks, and wild behavior a shooting at a concert would damage the gun effort far more than Cohen.

The Truth · Jul 19, 2018

WW, it's already illegal here to CC and drink, even a drop. No statute against drinking while OC that I know of, but I'm not sure about BAC requirements if one were to use a gun in self defense.

WalkingWolf · Jul 19, 2018

The Truth said:
WW, it's already illegal here to CC and drink, even a drop. No statute against drinking while OC that I know of, but I'm not sure about BAC requirements if one were to use a gun in self defense.

I have been through this before, firearms at crowded events end up in innocent people getting shot, or killed, and is bad for us. Nobody can use a gun for self defense in a crowd without shooting innocent bystanders, it just is stupid. I have both worked concerts, and responded to shootings at them. Guns do not belong at rock concerts, it is private venue so safety, and property rights trump carrying a gun in a place it cannot be used, and if used will kill or injure innocents. If a fan is that bothered by not having a gun at such an event they should stay home.

color of law · Jul 19, 2018

WalkingWolf said:
I have been through this before, firearms at crowded events end up in innocent people getting shot, or killed, and is bad for us. Nobody can use a gun for self defense in a crowd without shooting innocent bystanders, it just is stupid. I have both worked concerts, and responded to shootings at them. Guns do not belong at rock concerts, it is private venue so safety, and property rights trump carrying a gun in a place it cannot be used, and if used will kill or injure innocents. If a fan is that bothered by not having a gun at such an event they should stay home.

What about getting from my car to the concert and from the concert to my car? Who protects me getting to and from?

WalkingWolf · Jul 19, 2018

color of law said:
What about getting from my car to the concert and from the concert to my car? Who protects me getting to and from?

Your not protected at home? If you are that worried stay home.

The old adage of don't go stupid places, or do stupid things comes to mind.

Of course you could always take a cab, or have a friend drop you at the entrance.

solus · Jul 19, 2018

color of law said:
What about getting from my car to the concert and from the concert to my car? Who protects me getting to and from?

Actually more concerned about the last minute concept of returning from the venue to put your firearm, possibly minimally secured in their vehicle.

gutshot II · Jul 19, 2018

color of law said:
What about getting from my car to the concert and from the concert to my car? Who protects me getting to and from?

The same person that requires that you attend.

Marco · Jul 20, 2018

http://thehill.com/homenews/397608-ted-nugent-bars-guns-from-his-concert-in-last-minute-switch

Quote:
Musician Ted Nugent, a vocal gun rights advocate, reportedly barred guns from being allowed into a venue he performed at in Virginia on Tuesday night.

A sub-contract between Nugent and his promoter regarding open carry was shared with Berglund Center management right before the performance, according to NBC."It happened about five minutes before we opened doors. We had a security meeting before we opened doors and the subject came up and we said, 'Yes people will be bringing firearms,'" Berglund Center General Manager Robyn Schon told NBC.
According to Schon, Nugent's team said, "Uh, no, our agreement says no.'" Unquote

OMG, the world is self destructing, first Cohen poking humor now Nugent says no firearms at his concert even where allowed by local ordinances.

woe is...

Per the link: two people were asked to take guns back to their car.
Did anyone attend?
So were they okay with concealed carry?
Did they do pat downs, wand or have metal detectors?

"if they're carrying legally, then we expect them to behave and act accordingly," Roanoke Police Lt. Jason Holt told NBC.

Who protects me getting to and from?

Improvise!
You are the weapon, everything else is just a tool.

returning from the venue to put your firearm, possibly minimally secured in their vehicle.

car safe
relatively inexpensive and best if hidden from common observation

Never been a fan of concerts, sporting events, or public places where booze and crowds are the norm.

The Rules of Stupid state that you should never:
(1) go to Stupid places, (2) with Stupid people, (3) at Stupid times, and (4) do Stupid things. You can usually get away with breaking one of the Rules of Stupid, but two or more really increase the odds of bad things happening

solus · Jul 20, 2018

Marco said:
snippp...

car safe
relatively inexpensive and best if hidden from common observation

Never been a fan of concerts, sporting events, or public places where booze and crowds are the norm.

The Rules of Stupid state that you should never:
(1) go to Stupid places, (2) with Stupid people, (3) at Stupid times, and (4) do Stupid things. You can usually get away with breaking one of the Rules of Stupid, but two or more really increase the odds of bad things happening

Marco, please do a poll of this august membership on who has a 'relatively inexpensive' car safe but the point BG(s) hear last minute no firearm allowed in venue then watch who return to their vehicles, then BG(s) take their lineman's tool, break in by smashing the window, cut the wire on the relatively small little car safe hidden from common observation under the seat, smash said ill gotten car safe on it's edge taking the firearm from the opened 'relatively inexpensive' car safe or they can just put the safe under their arm and be gone in a matter of minutes.

Observation, you must not leave the house much if you truly follow your rules...just saying!

WalkingWolf · Jul 20, 2018

Marco said:
snip

Never been a fan of concerts, sporting events, or public places where booze and crowds are the norm.

The Rules of Stupid state that you should never:
(1) go to Stupid places, (2) with Stupid people, (3) at Stupid times, and (4) do Stupid things. You can usually get away with breaking one of the Rules of Stupid, but two or more really increase the odds of bad things happening

^^^This!

T Dubya · Jul 20, 2018

Too many variables, #1 that sticks out is agent provocateurs. Ted made the right call.

HP995 · Jul 20, 2018

I too can see potential for trouble at some concerts if people are drunk or disorderly, yet...

Nobody can use a gun for self defense in a crowd without shooting innocent bystanders, it just is stupid.

Well, if the Second Amendment is only for uncrowded places, that may be a problem. Aren't restaurants crowded? Malls? Businesses? Many outdoor walkways and venues? Some parks and beaches? Apartment buildings? Universities? Cities? Not everyone lives out in the country. You might choose a desolate spot and a big group shows up unexpectedly. I don't see anything about crowds or for that matter concerts as exceptions in the Constitution. Maybe I need to reread it.

I have both worked concerts, and responded to shootings at them. Guns do not belong at rock concerts,

So you were unarmed at the time?

WalkingWolf · Jul 21, 2018

There is big difference from malls, restaurants, and other businesses that do not cater to rowdy behavior. Also shoulder to shoulder crowds is not the same as where most people are well more than arms length apart. If a business has a history of such problems, and I have known some, such as the SkyRocket Bar in Spfld, Il then guns should be prohibited. As far as the second amendment on private property that is up to the business to allow, or not. It is up to the individual to make a decision if they want to enter such a place. Again if a person feels uncomfortable with rules, or the place the rules of stupid apply.

gutshot II · Jul 21, 2018

HP995 said:
I too can see potential for trouble at some concerts if people are drunk or disorderly, yet...

Well, if the Second Amendment is only for uncrowded places, that may be a problem. Aren't restaurants crowded? Malls? Businesses? Many outdoor walkways and venues? Some parks and beaches? Apartment buildings? Universities? Cities? Not everyone lives out in the country. You might choose a desolate spot and a big group shows up unexpectedly. I don't see anything about crowds or for that matter concerts as exceptions in the Constitution. Maybe I need to reread it....snip

I don't see anything about the Constitution applying to the actions of private individuals. Ted Nugent is not mentioned in the Constitution. Ted Nugent is not controlled by the constitution, the government is. Crowded or empty, restaurants can ban guns. Crowded or empty, malls can ban guns. Crowded or empty, private businesses can ban guns. Crowded or empty, Ted Nugent can ban guns on property he has leased. It is not about crowd size. It is about who controls the property.

HP995 · Jul 21, 2018

It is not about crowd size. It is about who controls the property.

Hi Gutshot, let me bold this in deference to your style:

"Nobody can use a gun for self defense in a crowd without shooting innocent bystanders, it just is stupid. ... Guns do not belong at rock concerts,"

Think about that.

No self defense in a crowd, no guns at rock concerts.

That's bigger than just ol' Ted and a private decision for one private venue. That's saying it is about crowds. And concerts. Those are general statements. They warrant a general response about crowds and concerts.

There is big difference from malls, restaurants, and other businesses that do not cater to rowdy behavior. Also shoulder to shoulder crowds is not the same as where most people are well more than arms length apart.

Hi Wolf. I agree, there is a big difference, but "in a crowd" is general. That was your statement. I'm OK to play along and modify it a bit. If you've never seen any shoulder to shoulder (or rowdy behavior) other than concerts, it could be a function of where you live. Be thankful for that! But it's not universal.

Nor are guns perfectly safe out in the country either. I knew a family that lost a kid in the yard because another kid on a nearby farm got careless with a .22.

People have been gunned down at a concert where guns weren't allowed. When you don't allow guns, the people who can have guns are those who don't follow the law or the rules, plus any cops or security. Now that's what the liberals call safe. I don't. Even Trump said there should have been people in the crowd shooting back at that concert. And Trump is not particularly strong on 2A as we know. You're to his Left when it comes to crowds.

gutshot II · Jul 21, 2018

HP995 said:
I too can see potential for trouble at some concerts if people are drunk or disorderly, yet...

Well, if the Second Amendment is only for uncrowded places, that may be a problem...snip....

It was you that stretched WW's comment to imply that the "Second Amendment is only for crowded places". WW just expressed a personal preference, not a constitutional limitation. You have taken his comments and stretched them to mean things he did not say and that I doubt that he meant. When you post something, you own it.

HP995 · Jul 21, 2018

Hi Gutshot, nothing stretched, merely pointed out what actually was said. Speaking of which, double check between your quote marks, that's the opposite. First get it down right, then you can own it! I'm usually a big fan of WW by the way, nothing personal and I accept his clarification, just sticking up for broad 2A rights in general. The more exceptions the more problems.

Marco · Jul 23, 2018

I think many anti-freedom folks would like everyone disarmed.

If I don't have to be there and I can't choose the way/ manner in which I prefer to defend myself/family guess I'll go elsewhere.
I choose to spend my money with places that earn my business.

Having lived/worked in a crowded city and environment, I would prefer to have my firearm. However, knowing a firearm in these situations may not be the best tool I would have at least another option/s.

In this situation the venue (Gov't owned property) couldn't ban firearms but the Leasee could and chose to exercise that option.
Agree or disagree it's legal.
No rights were violated as Ted nor his management/security team are the Government.

IIRC, Ted has insured he can carry almost everywhere he goes by being a Reserved LEO.

Nuget denies VA gun ticket holders permission to carry at Berglung Center concert

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