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Sigh, we give ourselves our own bad publicity

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solus

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Thanks richbuff, seems the 62 yo male had in his short’s pocket a .380 KelTec P-3AT pistol. [5# trigger pull]

The individual stated the pockets were to ‘shallow & unsafe’ which caused the firearm to fall out ‘when he crossed his legs’ while sitting on the couch.

He is free wandering around the community until his 11 July court date!

https://www.indystar.com/story/news...ident-leads-felony-charge-customer/741324002/
 

color of law

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He is cooked.

Criminal recklessness.

35-42-2 Sec. 2 . (a) A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally performs an act that creates a substantial risk of bodily injury to another person commits criminal recklessness.  Except as provided in subsection (b), criminal recklessness is a Class B misdemeanor.
(b) The offense of criminal recklessness as defined in subsection (a) is:
(1) a Level 6 felony if:
(A) it is committed while armed with a deadly weapon;  or
(B) the person committed aggressive driving (as defined in IC 9-21-8-55 ) that results in serious bodily injury to another person;  or
(2) a Level 5 felony if:
(A) it is committed by shooting a firearm into an inhabited dwelling or other building or place where people are likely to gather;  or
(B) the person committed aggressive driving (as defined in IC 9-21-8-55 ) that results in the death of another person.
Blacks Law Dictionary:
Reckless. Not recking; careless, heedless, inattentive; indifferent to consequences. According to circumstances it may mean desperately heedless, wanton or willful, or it may mean only careless, inattentive, or negligent. For conduct to be ureckless" it must be such as to evince disregard of, or indifference to, consequences, under circumstances involving danger to life or safety to others, although no harm was intended.
 

color of law

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What part of that applied to him? I don't see it. I could more see it applying to the parents of the 6-year old.
He recklessly performed an act that created a substantial risk of bodily injury to another person. In other words, he carelessly did not maintain control over the firearm which created a substantial risk of bodily injury to another person.
 

solus

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When it rains, it seems to pour....

A woman is recovering from injuries she suffered on Thursday after a gun she carried into the Wal-Mart in Lexington went off after falling out of its holster.

Lexington Police Captain Jeff Middleton said an adult female walked into Wal-Mart at 547 Church St. about 3:38 p.m. with a gun in a holster at her side.

“She’s a permit holder, and she came into the building wearing the firearm,” Middleton said. “She was in the vestibule of the Wal-Mart, and in the course of getting a buggy to do her shopping, the firearm became dislodged and fell to the ground.”

The impact with the ground caused the gun to go off, sending a bullet to the floor and fragments into the air.

Part of those fragments ricocheted and hit the woman in the leg, injuring her enough that Henderson County EMS transported her to Henderson County Community Hospital, where she was treated and released.

https://www.jacksonsun.com/story/ne...en-gun-goes-off-lexington-wal-mart/747239002/


 
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WalkingWolf

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What kind of gun? Almost all modern guns will not go off when dropped, me thinks she pulled the trigger trying to catch her gun.
 

MAC702

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He recklessly performed an act that created a substantial risk of bodily injury to another person. In other words, he carelessly did not maintain control over the firearm which created a substantial risk of bodily injury to another person.

So "carelessly" = "recklessly?"
 
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MAC702

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...The impact with the ground caused the gun to go off...

BS

Oh, wait...

giphy.gif
 
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Grapeshot

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--snipped--
“She’s a permit holder, and she came into the building wearing the firearm,” Middleton said. “She was in the vestibule of the Wal-Mart, and in the course of getting a buggy to do her shopping, the firearm and fell to the ground.”

"The impact with the ground caused the gun to go off, sending a bullet to the floor and fragments into the air."

https://www.jacksonsun.com/story/ne...en-gun-goes-off-lexington-wal-mart/747239002/


Non retention holster?
Free floating firing pin, struck concrete floor barrel first?
 

color of law

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Keep forgetting to lock the door is careless. driving-and-texting is reckless. They can not be interchangeable; otherwise, the meaning is distorted.
That's what the Blacks Law dictionary says. I can get you their address so you tell them how you feel.
On the other hand, when you carelessly forget to lock the gun safe door and the kids get into it and end up discharging a gun hitting one of their friends in the leg, I would think the cops will think leaving the gun safe door unlocked was reckless.
 

Fallschirjmäger

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What is RECKLESS? - courtesy of Black's Law Dictionary
a term that means to be careless and indifferent to the welfare of other people.

What is CARELESSNESS?
Negligence: failure to act with the prudence that a reasonable person would exercise under the same circumstances.

One might note that it doesn't just say 'careless' but careless to the welfare of other people. That's an important difference not to be glossed over lightly. If they're the same, why are the definitions different?
 

color of law

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I still don't see it. Please embolden or underline which part of that definition you found directly applied to him. Also, I did not see the word "careless" in that definition.
I did.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...ad-publicity&p=2232633&viewfull=1#post2232633

Criminal recklessness.
35-42-2 Sec. 2 . (a) A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally performs an act that creates a substantial risk of bodily injury to another person commits criminal recklessness.  Except as provided in subsection (b), criminal recklessness is a Class B misdemeanor.
(b) The offense of criminal recklessness as defined in subsection (a) is:
(1) a Level 6 felony if:
(A) it is committed while armed with a deadly weapon;  or
(B) the person committed aggressive driving (as defined in IC 9-21-8-55 ) that results in serious bodily injury to another person;  or
(2) a Level 5 felony if:
(A) it is committed by shooting a firearm into an inhabited dwelling or other building or place where people are likely to gather;  or
(B) the person committed aggressive driving (as defined in IC 9-21-8-55 ) that results in the death of another person.
Blacks Law Dictionary:
Reckless. Not recking; careless, heedless, inattentive; indifferent to consequences. According to circumstances it may mean desperately heedless, wanton or willful, or it may mean only careless, inattentive, or negligent. For conduct to be "reckless" it must be such as to evince disregard of, or indifference to, consequences, under circumstances involving danger to life or safety to others, although no harm was intended.
I don't know what else to say. I gave you the statute he was charged under and the definition of reckless.
 

Fallschirjmäger

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I swear... sometimes it's like people see a word in a definition and then just stop reading and thinking.

I'm surprised someone hasn't equated being inattentive with being reckless yet.
 
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MAC702

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...I don't know what else to say. I gave you the statute he was charged under and the definition of reckless.

A definition that included the phrase "indifferent to consequences." I find that relevant and hard to believe a normal careless person would be this way. Was the individual quoted as saying something like "Oh well; big deal," when confronted about missing his firearm?
 

since9

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That's what the Blacks Law dictionary says.

I don't care that Black's Law Dictionary equates the two. They're not equivalent, and the difference between them goes further than merely a matter of degree.

As for the situation... The individual who lost his gun to a couch was careless. Whether CC or OC, I'm often checking possession, usually by checking mere weight. Failure to maintain positive (that's the checking part) of one's firearm is careless.

The FBI agent who did a back flip, losing control of his firearm, which then discharged, was reckless. It wasn't because he did a back flip while wearing a firearm. It's because he knowingly did a back flip with a holster that was incapable of retaining his firearm during a back flip.

So why isn't the couch potato guy reckless? Because he had no knowledge that his actions of sitting in the couch would risk losing his firearm. This could have been due to lack of experience or lack of training/education. Therefore, he was merely careless.

And what about the parents? Were they careless or reckless? If they knew that letting their child run wild in IKEA ran the risk of that child finding and discharging a firearm, then they would be reckless. But how could anyone know that? That meets no reasonable test as it's an extremely rare event. Ergo, at worst, they were merely careless in letting their child get out of their sight and/or immediate control. It may be child neglect, if it's found they failed to provide adequate supervision, but what's "adequate" for IKEA? For the child's age? Those smarter than I on that subject would have to investigate.
 

solus

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I don't care that Black's Law Dictionary equates the two. They're not equivalent, and the difference between them goes further than merely a matter of degree.

As for the situation... The individual who lost his gun to a couch was careless. Whether CC or OC, I'm often checking possession, usually by checking mere weight. Failure to maintain positive (that's the checking part) of one's firearm is careless.

The FBI agent who did a back flip, losing control of his firearm, which then discharged, was reckless. It wasn't because he did a back flip while wearing a firearm. It's because he knowingly did a back flip with a holster that was incapable of retaining his firearm during a back flip.

So why isn't the couch potato guy reckless? Because he had no knowledge that his actions of sitting in the couch would risk losing his firearm. This could have been due to lack of experience or lack of training/education. Therefore, he was merely careless.

And what about the parents? Were they careless or reckless? If they knew that letting their child run wild in IKEA ran the risk of that child finding and discharging a firearm, then they would be reckless. But how could anyone know that? That meets no reasonable test as it's an extremely rare event. Ergo, at worst, they were merely careless in letting their child get out of their sight and/or immediate control. It may be child neglect, if it's found they failed to provide adequate supervision, but what's "adequate" for IKEA? For the child's age? Those smarter than I on that subject would have to investigate.

First, as reported in this thread’s post #22 that in one of the news reports, the 62yo man stated, the pockets of the shorts were ‘shallow and unsafe’ for an unholstered Kel Tec P3-AT.

Oh wait, I remember now, this member posted that snippet of information and is the same member who you have on ignore.

So, with a lack of possible key information showing that the perpetrator of this incident KNEW his concealed firearm wasn’t being appropriately and securely carried, yet you feel the child’s parents are some how culpable in this incident?

Absolutely amazing, truly amazing...yet you said it so elegantly and hit the nail on the head with the last sentence of your post!

PS: per CoL’s post of the statute, this individual did in fact, recklessly ignore established safety protocols; while knowingly shoving his unholstered small pistol in his pant’s pockets which he knew were ‘shallow and unsafe’, and thus created a substantial risk of bodily injury to himself as well as to others!
 
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