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Wenatchee Confluence State Park head ranger bans open carry?

heresolong

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
1,318
Location
Blaine, WA, ,
Our veteran's group will be camping there the third weekend in July and when the chapter organizing the weekend went down to talk to the head ranger about some activities they wanted to put on he told them that Open Carry was not allowed in the park.

Anyone know something I don't know?

Otherwise we have a violation of state law and a rogue ranger.

I would also appreciate a contact number for a lawyer who works on these issues who could get a cease and desist letter out to the proper authorities in a timely manner and for a reasonable price.

Thanks.
 

rapgood

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
598
Location
Stanwood, WA
Our veteran's group will be camping there the third weekend in July and when the chapter organizing the weekend went down to talk to the head ranger about some activities they wanted to put on he told them that Open Carry was not allowed in the park.

Anyone know something I don't know?

Otherwise we have a violation of state law and a rogue ranger.

I would also appreciate a contact number for a lawyer who works on these issues who could get a cease and desist letter out to the proper authorities in a timely manner and for a reasonable price.

Thanks.

Call me. 206-624-2379. I am currently living in England, but I am licensed to practice in Washington. I don't charge for these issues. I'll send a letter. Did you get Ranger Rick's real name by any chance?
--Rob
 

heresolong

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
1,318
Location
Blaine, WA, ,
From the state parks website at https://parks.state.wa.us/FAQ.aspx:
"Hunting and carrying loaded firearms on State Parks land is prohibited. "

That is interesting because that is not reflective of what the actual state park rules say.

WAC Chapter 352-32 Public Use of State Park Areas

WAC 352-32-120 Firearms. (1) No person shall discharge or propel across, in, or into any upland state park area as defined in WAC 352-32-010 a firearm, except where the
commission for good cause has authorized a special recreational activity upon finding that it is not inconsistent with state park use. Any violation of this section is a gross misdemeanor.

(2) The possession, display, carrying, discharge or use of a firearm is further regulated under chapter 9.41 RCW.

I will be carrying a copy of the rules with me when I go. Unfortunately it is too late to cancel all our reservations and go somewhere else.
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
Very odd that your "rogue Ranger would say that. Sounds personnal. A group of us stayed at that very park, as we do on an annual basis. We not only carried firearms openly and well holstered, we advertised the fact with banners and brochures. No worries.

Email sent to the addy provided (infocent@parks.wa.gov)
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
...Unfortunately it is too late to cancel all our reservations and go somewhere else.

This is not a question of choosing a different business. Since these are YOUR PUBLIC LANDS, you don't want to do this anyway. It sounds like it is going to be relatively easy to get them to fall in line. What can also hopefully happen is punishment for someone who is CLEARLY VIOLATING their authority and attempting to bar Constitutional rights of citizens. This needs to be taken as seriously as possible.
 

golddigger14s

Activist Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,068
Location
Lawton, OK USA
I know the camp manager LOVES it when we come. We've never had a single issue. Again, don't ask for permission to do something that is perfectly legal.
 

heresolong

Regular Member
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Messages
1,318
Location
Blaine, WA, ,
I know the camp manager LOVES it when we come. We've never had a single issue. Again, don't ask for permission to do something that is perfectly legal.

Yeah. This frustrates me. I have no idea why the fellow who was setting everything up even brought up the issue. As you can see from my info, I've been on this site for over ten years and very active for much of that time. I got this second hand from someone in the Chapter over there and when I tried to explain it to him he was vague (he's one of these "I have a concealed carry permit anyway so I'll just conceal" fellows).

Anyway, mostly I was wondering if anyone else had this experience recently at Confluence. I'm already well aware of the "do it anyway" and the "don't ask" and the "he can't do that" and the "here's the WAC and RCW references".

Sounds like no one else has. I'm hoping to get a letter out to the Washington State Parks as rapgood offered to do, but unfortunately I don't have any actual usable information on who said this as the people telling me it was said are also telling me "the head ranger" and have no idea what his name was. I'm going to give rapgood a call later this week and maybe we can send a letter to the Operations Manager for all the parks. I'll keep you posted as to what I hear back but either way I will be open carrying that weekend.
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
Yeah. This frustrates me. I have no idea why the fellow who was setting everything up even brought up the issue. As you can see from my info, I've been on this site for over ten years and very active for much of that time. I got this second hand from someone in the Chapter over there and when I tried to explain it to him he was vague (he's one of these "I have a concealed carry permit anyway so I'll just conceal" fellows).

Anyway, mostly I was wondering if anyone else had this experience recently at Confluence. I'm already well aware of the "do it anyway" and the "don't ask" and the "he can't do that" and the "here's the WAC and RCW references".

Sounds like no one else has. I'm hoping to get a letter out to the Washington State Parks as rapgood offered to do, but unfortunately I don't have any actual usable information on who said this as the people telling me it was said are also telling me "the head ranger" and have no idea what his name was. I'm going to give rapgood a call later this week and maybe we can send a letter to the Operations Manager for all the parks. I'll keep you posted as to what I hear back but either way I will be open carrying that weekend.


This picture was taken at Confluence...
28951098_10156483796664267_5099183323116661768_n.jpg
 

golddigger14s

Activist Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,068
Location
Lawton, OK USA
Why doesn't the OCDO have throw-up emojis? Just kidding, we had a great time last May. NOBODY had a problem with us. To include the animal PJ wearing group that came through. :) Carry on, and disregard the ranger.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Why doesn't the OCDO have throw-up emojis? Just kidding, we had a great time last May. NOBODY had a problem with us. To include the animal PJ wearing group that came through. :) Carry on, and disregard the ranger.
face-with-open-mouth-vomiting_1f92e.png


or perhaps more genteel
nauseated-face_1f922.png
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
I emailed per the above post. Today I received a positive reply that can be shared with anyone (the lone ranger) who disagrees with Openly Carried Firearms in any Washington State Park.
I will be sending Jim Music, Customer Service Specialist 3, Washington State Parks & Recreation Commission, (360) 902-8603 a thank you for the confirmation of the RCWs.
This was the content of the email :

Music, James (PARKS) <James.Music@PARKS.WA.GOV>

To:'John Laigaie III',
Jun 28 at 10:31 AM

Good morning, John,
Thank you for your email and for sharing your concerns with us. It appears that the issue at hand is whether or not it is permissible in state parks to openly carry loaded firearms.
Here is some information I received from our Chief of Visitor Protection and Law Enforcement.

Possession of firearms throughout Washington State is allowed in accordance with the Revised Code of Washington chapter 9.41.

Chapter 9.41 RCW does not make it unlawful to openly carry a firearm, meaning a firearm that is clearly visible to the public.

Any persons who may lawfully possess firearms in Washington State may also lawfully carry firearms in Washington State (including within parks) without any license, if the firearms are not concealed on the persons.
A “Concealed Pistol License” (CPL) is generally required to carry a pistol that is concealed on the person, or to have a loaded pistol in a vehicle; however, the CPL requirement does not apply to any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, when it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in a lawful outdoor activity or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area.

It is unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

Aiming a firearm (loaded or unloaded) at or towards someone is unlawful.

Willfully and recklessly or dangerously discharging a firearm is unlawful, whether or not there is property damage or whether or not someone is injured as a result.

Washington Administrative Code 352-32-120 prohibits the discharge of a firearm within, into, or across any state park area (with the exception of authorized special recreational activities).

WAC 352-32-120 does not prohibit possessing or carrying firearms in accordance with chapter 9.41 RCW, as doing so would be preempted by RCW 9.41.290.

WAC 352-32-120 applies only to firearms, while WAC 352-32-121 applies to all other forms of weapons (not firearms) that discharge or propel some sort of projectile or object. The term "display", as it is used in WAC 352-32-121, is not relevant to firearms as this rule only regulates the use of weapons other than firearms.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=352-32

I hope this information is helpful. Again, thank you for sharing your concerns. If we can be of any further assistance, please don’t hesitate to give us a call.
Thank you, Jim Music
Customer Service Specialist 3
 

rapgood

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
598
Location
Stanwood, WA
What about this "clearly visible to the public"? Where is that in the law or case law?

I think that this interpretation is accurate. It doesn't say it explicitly in the statutory or case law, but the interpretation is accurate based upon the plain language of the statute.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,936
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
I think that this interpretation is accurate. It doesn't say it explicitly in the statutory or case law, but the interpretation is accurate based upon the plain language of the statute.
What statute section says "clearly visible to the public"? If it does say that then there is no such thing as open carry. If my gun is visible on my right side and the public is on the left side the gun is not visible.
 

rapgood

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
598
Location
Stanwood, WA
What statute section says "clearly visible to the public"? If it does say that then there is no such thing as open carry. If my gun is visible on my right side and the public is on the left side the gun is not visible.

Well... that is an interesting interpretation of the law. However, I am not convinced that you have considered the "reasonable person" standard (which is how a Washington judge would quite probably interpret the plain language of the statute). See State Right to Bear Arms in Washington analyzing Washington Courts reviews of Wash. Const. Art. 1, Sec. 24 and RCW 9.41.

In any event, it's been nice chatting with you.
 
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