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Grand Jury refuses to indict LMPD officer in shooting of unarmed man

gutshot II

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http://www.wtol.com/story/38250614/grand-jury-wont-indict-lmpd-officer-involved-in-shooting

Of all the shootings of citizens by Louisville Metro Police Officers that have occurred over the last few years, this one is the most egregious of them all, in my opinion. If an LMPD officer will ever be indicted for a shooting, I thought this one might be it. The Grand Jury saw things differently. If any of us had done the same thing, do you think we would receive the same treatment? This man was unarmed, did not resist, made no attempt to attack anyone, was attempting to follow the orders of the police officer and was shot anyway? After being discovered by LMPD officers, what would he have had to do to not be shot? Is it SOP for officers to shoot all people found in abandoned houses? Is that the "punishment" for entering an abandoned house?

Officer Stumler said to the Grand Jury that it was an "accident" that she shot Mr. Warrick. What caused this "accident"? What change in procedures will prevent other similar "accidents"? Is this type of "accident" common with LMPD? Was Officer Stumler acting in accordance with standard LMPD procedures when this "accident" happened? What will be changed to keep more of these "accidents" from happening?
 

gutshot II

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Is there not a (criminal?) negligent discharge of a firearm statute in KY?

I didn't say there was no possible charge for what she did. There are several that could have been applied. You have to understand that they decided not to charge her with any of them. The Grand Jury has unlimited descresion on whether to charge or not charge someone.
 
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Fallschirjmäger

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I didn't say there was no possible charge for what she did. There are several that could have been applied. You have to understand that they decided not to charge her with any of them. The Grand Jury has unlimited discretion on whether to charge or not charge someone.

As the State has absolute control over exactly what evidence they want to introduce, it's about a 99% certainty that the Grand Jury will vote as the state wishes, based upon the evidence the state presents. Ref Nolo.com

If the State wants an indictment it will present evidence that prompts and indictment.
If the State wants a dismissal it will only present evidence that prompts a dismissal.
 

OC for ME

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It appears that KY does not have a criminal sanction for shooting anyone "accidentally." I searched KY Title L and did not find a sanction that could be applied. There could be, I did not find one.
 

gutshot II

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It appears that KY does not have a criminal sanction for shooting anyone "accidentally." I searched KY Title L and did not find a sanction that could be applied. There could be, I did not find one.

What a defendant may claim to be an "accident" a prosecutor might see as recklessness. What some people see as an "accident" may really be wanton. Officer Stumler claims it was an accident. The Grand Jury is not limited to her interrpretation of events in their decision. That is the whole point of their existence. If we let the accused define and decided all the facts there would be no point to having a Grand Jury, or a court system for that matter. Her story is that she was attempting to turn on the light on her firearm when it "accidentally" discharged. I have never seen a light on a firearm that was activated by the trigger and I hope I never see one. On the surface, it seems like a bad idea. Was the activation switch defective? The whole things is a "whitewash", which is business as usual for police shootings. Once again I ask, would you or I be excused in a similar manner if we had such an "accident" or would we be prosecuted for attempted murder, criminal assault, wanton endangerment or any of a dozen other crimes. We don't charge people criminally for "accidents", because there is no intent in a true accident, but some claims of accidents involve action that is criminal.
 

solus

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What a defendant may claim to be an "accident" a prosecutor might see as recklessness. What some people see as an "accident" may really be wanton. Officer Stumler claims it was an accident. The Grand Jury is not limited to her interrpretation of events in their decision. That is the whole point of their existence. If we let the accused define and decided all the facts there would be no point to having a Grand Jury, or a court system for that matter. Her story is that she was attempting to turn on the light on her firearm when it "accidentally" discharged. I have never seen a light on a firearm that was activated by the trigger and I hope I never see one. On the surface, it seems like a bad idea. Was the activation switch defective? The whole things is a "whitewash", which is business as usual for police shootings. Once again I ask, would you or I be excused in a similar manner if we had such an "accident" or would we be prosecuted for attempted murder, criminal assault, wanton endangerment or any of a dozen other crimes. We don't charge people criminally for "accidents", because there is no intent in a true accident, but some claims of accidents involve action that is criminal.

GJ determined the LE officer “accidentally” pulled the trigger while turning on their service pistol’s flashlight?

BS flag is thrown...
Sol Wachtler, the former chief judge of New York state, coined the term in a January 1985 interview with the New York Daily News' Marcia Kramer and Frank Lombardi. The relevant bit:

In a bid to make prosecutors more accountable for their actions, Chief Judge Sol Wachtler has proposed that the state scrap the grand jury system of bringing criminal indictments.
Wachtler, who became the state's top judge earlier this month, said district attorneys now have so much influence on grand juries that "by and large" they could get them to "indict a ham sandwich."
A month later, the New York Times noted that Wachtler believed grand juries "operate more often as the prosecutor's pawn than the citizen's shield." That belief—that prosecutors can get grand juries to do whatever they want them to do...

Want pickles and mayo on your sandwich?
 

gutshot II

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OC for ME

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It seems that giving the cop a chance to tell her side of the story swayed the GJ to side with her oopsie. Does a member of the great unwashed masses get a shot at telling a GJ their side of the story if a similar situation were to afflict them? I wonder if Mr. Wine would send a member of the great unwashed masses to a GJ before filing charges. In KY is a GJ required before any charges are levied on a member of the great unwashed masses.

Travesty...vote Mr. Wine out of office, get the top cop fired, keep Stumler in the news. She is a incompetent boob who should not be permitted to carry a firearm outside of her home.

...accident...pfft!!
 

gutshot II

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It seems that giving the cop a chance to tell her side of the story swayed the GJ to side with her oopsie. Does a member of the great unwashed masses get a shot at telling a GJ their side of the story if a similar situation were to afflict them? I wonder if Mr. Wine would send a member of the great unwashed masses to a GJ before filing charges. In KY is a GJ required before any charges are levied on a member of the great unwashed masses.

Travesty...vote Mr. Wine out of office, get the top cop fired, keep Stumler in the news. She is a incompetent boob who should not be permitted to carry a firearm outside of her home.

...accident...pfft!!

Great ideas. Why didn't I think of that? Oh wait, its not going to happen. In that jurisdiction (Louisville Metro), the voters like this kind of "justice". Mr. Wine will have a job as long as he wants it, in fact he will probably move up the food chain. The Chief of Police has been under some fire but because his officers have shot too many unarmed people. Black Lives Matter wants him fired. They want to disarm cops completely, too. Chief Gates might be fired, but not over this event. I am assuming he will fire Officer Stumler to look tough and save his job.
 

gutshot II

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Messages
782
Location
Central Ky.
It seems that giving the cop a chance to tell her side of the story swayed the GJ to side with her oopsie. Does a member of the great unwashed masses get a shot at telling a GJ their side of the story if a similar situation were to afflict them? I wonder if Mr. Wine would send a member of the great unwashed masses to a GJ before filing charges. In KY is a GJ required before any charges are levied on a member of the great unwashed masses.

Travesty...vote Mr. Wine out of office, get the top cop fired, keep Stumler in the news. She is a incompetent boob who should not be permitted to carry a firearm outside of her home.

...accident...pfft!!

Grand Jurys only hear testimony from the prosecutors. Officers Stumlers story was not heard. The defense does not get to present a case in the Grand Jury room. This would also be the case with any other defendant. Prosecutors can file charges on there own, but any case where there is any contoversy goes to the Grand Jury to give the prosecutor some cover. If he loses in court, he can always say that he never wanted to prosecute such a weak case, but GJ forced him to.
 
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solus

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http://www.wtol.com/story/38250614/grand-jury-wont-indict-lmpd-officer-involved-in-shooting

Snippppp....

Officer Stumler said to the Grand Jury that it was an "accident" that she shot Mr. Warrick.


Grand Jurys only hear testimony from the prosecutors. Officers Stumlers story was not heard. Snipp...

Soooooo...kinda confused...which is it, the LE did or didn’t tell her story about the accidentally neglectful discharge while looking for the flashlight switch on her service pistol with her finger on the trigger, while pointed at a suspect?

Further, prosecutors may call witnesses who may or not be targets of the GJ proceedings; may or may not have knowledge of the situation being discussed [aka hearsay]; legal representation is not allowed inside during GJ proceedings but GJ witnesses are allowed to excuse themselves to conference with their attorney(s) in the hall.
 

color of law

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Grand Jurys only hear testimony from the prosecutors. Officers Stumlers story was not heard. The defense does not get to present a case in the Grand Jury room. This would also be the case with any other defendant. Prosecutors can file charges on there own, but any case where there is any contoversy goes to the Grand Jury to give the prosecutor some cover. If he loses in court, he can always say that he never wanted to prosecute such a weak case, but GJ forced him to.
Prosecutors don't testify, they cannot be a witness. If they were they could not preside over the GJ. A defendant can request to go before the GJ. If requested the prosecutor must inform the JG of the request, then the GJ decides. A prosecutor can file charges on there own, that is called an information, but if the information charges a felony the accused can demand a GJ indictment. A prosecutor is not required to put anything before the GJ. And, he surely cannot blame the GJ if he loosed the case. The prosecutor has discretion.
 
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