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Guns in churches

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
This will wind Northam's and Herring's glocks.

Gasp - guns in churches!

"A state Attorney General's opinion from 2011 says current law already allows Virginians to carry guns in churches, subject to a church's permission. But GOP Sen. Ben Chafin, the bill's sponsor, said the legislature needed to clarify and cement the right to carry a gun in church into law if a church allows it."

http://www.nbc12.com/story/37332410/virginia-senate-passes-bill-to-allow-guns-in-churches
 

MamaLiberty

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
894
Location
Newcastle, Wyoming, USA
Oh me... have they yet finished the legislation that would clarify if the sun is "allowed" to rise in the east? Idiots...

I carried to church, OPENLY, for about 10 years... nobody objected, and probably few even noticed. Don't go to any church these days, but that's the way it is...

Oh wait... that's in Wyoming. :)
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,936
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Oh me... have they yet finished the legislation that would clarify if the sun is "allowed" to rise in the east? Idiots...

I carried to church, OPENLY, for about 10 years... nobody objected, and probably few even noticed. Don't go to any church these days, but that's the way it is...

Oh wait... that's in Wyoming. :)
Annie Oakley incognito.
 

gcbailey

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2015
Messages
24
Location
WV/VA
If I understand correctly currently in VA you have to be on a church security team or have "good reason" to carry in church? My county has been pretty actively pushing for church security since the shooting in Texas. I will say that Tazewell county is very firearm friendly. To my knowledge the local sheriff (tazewell va) has never said anything regarding what the current VA law is regarding church carry...

As someone who lives on the WV/VA border but goes to church on the WV side and is a member of a church "security team", WV troopers have been pushing "church security" pretty heavy too.

Strange times....

http://www.wvva.com/story/36874151/...look-to-prepare-for-active-shooter-situations

Current attending church - http://www.wvnstv.com/local-news/me...hurch-holds-active-shooter-training/866865139
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,936
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
A liberal construct...thanks for reinforcing a false concept.
Excuse me? I didn't take any stand as to my question. You, as always and again, berate an OCDO participant for asking a question by accusing the questioner of taking a position apparently contrary to your belief. This is not the first time you have pulled this stunt.

Have a nice day.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,936
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Aside from the it-doesn't-appear-except-as-opinion argument, Delegate Dave LaRock addresses that in this piece.
Second, the general prohibition statute, as written, puts the government in a position of requiring a person entering private property to forfeit the right to self-defense in order to exercise his right to free exercise of religion. While it is appropriate for the property owner to make rules like this, the government has no compelling interest to intervene in this manner.
The law being passed has no effect on the public. The law is directed to government actors. A church is not like your home. Most churches are open to the public, not by invitation only. I don't think the church can demand you wave your fourth amendment right for entering a house of worship.

I can tell you from experience that when a business/church/home is open to the public that business/church/home forfeits a number of rights.
 

gutshot II

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
782
Location
Central Ky.
Aren't churches private property? Aren't they owned by the members or by the church hierarchy? What authority does the state have to demand that they have no guns on their own property? What is the penalty for a violation of this "law". If a member of a small church that owns their own building carries a gun, will he be arrested, fined or jailed?
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,936
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Aren't churches private property? Aren't they owned by the members or by the church hierarchy? What authority does the state have to demand that they have no guns on their own property? What is the penalty for a violation of this "law". If a member of a small church that owns their own building carries a gun, will he be arrested, fined or jailed?
Be careful asking questions. They will be construed as taking a position.
 

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
What ever happened to the separation of church and state?

I don't believe such ever actually existed except in the minds of some anti-religious liberals who have warped Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists and substituted his analogy for the actual letter and intent of the constitution.

Why do you ask?
 

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
Ideally, there should not be any particular gun laws relative to churches. As private property, churches have every right to set whatever policy they like relative to firearms possession on their property. Ditto for alcohol, pork, pornography etc.

If there is to be a law regarding guns and churches, the default should be that guns are permissible unless the church gives affirmative notice that guns are not allowed. If the State wishes to help protect freedom of religion by providing some legal backing to what would otherwise be a private policy regarding guns, I don't see anything offensive to either the intent of the 1st amendment nor good public policy.

Recognizing that politics is the art of the possible, if current bans guns in churches potentially in violation of both private property rights and freedom of religion, then a bill to legalize possession if a church gives permission is a small step in the right direction.
 

wrearick

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
650
Location
Virginia Beach, Va.
I have a copy of the attorney general's opinion somewhere but I believe the article is incorrect. I believe the law states "without good and sufficient reason" and the opinion rendered was that Self defense WAS a good and sufficient reason. Never had to "have the church's permission" although like all businesses, they could ask you to leave the property or push for a trespass charge.

I agree that the church, like other businesses should be able to set it's own policy and do not believe the state should be setting rules/codes of conduct for a private organization or business.
 

mobeewan

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
652
Location
Hampton, Va, ,
If I understand correctly currently in VA you have to be on a church security team or have "good reason" to carry in church? My county has been pretty actively pushing for church security since the shooting in Texas. I will say that Tazewell county is very firearm friendly. To my knowledge the local sheriff (tazewell va) has never said anything regarding what the current VA law is regarding church carry...

As someone who lives on the WV/VA border but goes to church on the WV side and is a member of a church "security team", WV troopers have been pushing "church security" pretty heavy too.

Strange times....

http://www.wvva.com/story/36874151/...look-to-prepare-for-active-shooter-situations

Current attending church - http://www.wvnstv.com/local-news/me...hurch-holds-active-shooter-training/866865139

This is the only section of the Code of Virginia regarding weapons n church:

18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.
If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

Self defense is a good and sufficient reason. Nowhere does the code say anything about church security teams. However, if a church wanted to form one that would be a good and sufficient enough reason as well.
 
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