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Thread: Private Citizens Put Terminal Hurt On More Than 300 Criminals In 2016: FBI

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Private Citizens Put Terminal Hurt On More Than 300 Criminals In 2016: FBI

    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    All that ends well ends well.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    This article fails to promote the gun hater's agenda. What should we do?

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    wonder what is is about WI members who insist on spinning stats in their positive way, all the while misleading the remainder of the august members of this forum.

    garbage in, garbage out of the numbers game... hummm, interestingly, quote:
    ... the 2016 Crime in the United States report — the first released under President Trump’s administration — contains close to 70 percent fewer data table than the 2015 version did.... The data missing from the report is mostly about arrests and homicides. There were 51 tables of arrest data in the 2015 report, and there are only seven in the 2016 report. Data about clearance rates — essentially the percentage of crimes solved — was covered in four tables in 2015 but just one in 2016.

    The data missing from the report is mostly about arrests and homicides. There were 51 tables of arrest data in the 2015 report, and there are only seven2 in the 2016 report. Data about clearance rates — essentially the percentage of crimes solved — was covered in four tables in 2015 but just one in 2016.

    Changes to the UCR’s (added by solus for clarity ~ Uniform Crime Report) yearly report are not unheard of, and the press release that accompanies the 2016 report, which was published in late September, acknowledges the removal of some tables, saying that the UCR program had “streamlined the 2016 edition.” But changes to the report typically go through a body called the Advisory Policy Board (APB), which is responsible for managing and reviewing operational issues for a number of FBI programs. This time they did not.

    ...queries... about whether the changes to the 2016 report had been made in consultation with the Advisory Policy Board, a spokesman for the UCR responded that the program had “worked with staff from the Office of Public Affairs to review the number of times a user actually viewed the tables on the internet.”

    ...“To me it’s shocking that they made these decisions to publish that many fewer tables and they didn’t make the decision with the APB,” James Nolan, who worked at the UCR for five years and now teaches at West Virginia University.... Nolan called the FBI’s removal of the tables for lack of web traffic, “somewhat illogical.”

    Although the removal of the tables makes it more difficult to get information on one of the White House’s most prominent causes, it also seems like part of a trend in the Trump administration: the suppression of government data and an unwillingness to share information with the press and public. About two weeks after Hurricane Maria devastated Puerto Rico, the FEMA website stopped displaying key metrics relating to island residents’ access to drinkable water and electricity.

    Richard Rosenfeld, former president of the American Society of Criminology and a professor at the University of Missouri, St. Louis, noticed that the 2016 report no longer had data for a trend area that he tracks — homicides related to the narcotic drug trade. “One could argue the Trump administration is interested in the opioid epidemic and might be interested in its criminal justice consequences,” he said.


    “I simply don’t understand why they would omit any of the tables that they have included from years past.”

    lies, damn lies, and stats...
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..."

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    On the other hand, there being 51 tables allowed the numbers to be skewed or twisted to give a false narrative. Example: The news reported that last year the number of people shooting themselves in their toe doubled from the year before. We must now tackle this massive increase. The story travels the globe and is believed because know one read the footnote in table 47. I think you get the drift. Figures lie when liars figure.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    wonder what is is about WI members who insist on spinning stats in their positive way, all the while misleading the remainder of the august members of this forum.

    garbage in, garbage out of the numbers game... hummm, interestingly, quote:
    ... the 2016 Crime in the United States report — the first released under President Trump’s administration — contains close to 70 percent fewer data table than the 2015 version did.... The data missing from the report is mostly about arrests and homicides. There were 51 tables of arrest data in the 2015 report, and there are only seven in the 2016 report. Data about clearance rates — essentially the percentage of crimes solved — was covered in four tables in 2015 but just one in 2016.

    The data missing from the report is mostly about arrests and homicides. There were 51 tables of arrest data in the 2015 report, and there are only seven2 in the 2016 report. Data about clearance rates — essentially the percentage of crimes solved — was covered in four tables in 2015 but just one in 2016.

    Changes to the UCR’s (added by solus for clarity ~ Uniform Crime Report) yearly report are not unheard of, and the press release that accompanies the 2016 report, which was published in late September, acknowledges the removal of some tables, saying that the UCR program had “streamlined the 2016 edition.” But changes to the report typically go through a body called the Advisory Policy Board (APB), which is responsible for managing and reviewing operational issues for a number of FBI programs. This time they did not.

    ...queries... about whether the changes to the 2016 report had been made in consultation with the Advisory Policy Board, a spokesman for the UCR responded that the program had “worked with staff from the Office of Public Affairs to review the number of times a user actually viewed the tables on the internet.”

    ...“To me it’s shocking that they made these decisions to publish that many fewer tables and they didn’t make the decision with the APB,” James Nolan, who worked at the UCR for five years and now teaches at West Virginia University.... Nolan called the FBI’s removal of the tables for lack of web traffic, “somewhat illogical.”

    Although the removal of the tables makes it more difficult to get information on one of the White House’s most prominent causes, it also seems like part of a trend in the Trump administration: the suppression of government data and an unwillingness to share information with the press and public. About two weeks after Hurricane Maria devastated Puerto Rico, the FEMA website stopped displaying key metrics relating to island residents’ access to drinkable water and electricity.

    Richard Rosenfeld, former president of the American Society of Criminology and a professor at the University of Missouri, St. Louis, noticed that the 2016 report no longer had data for a trend area that he tracks — homicides related to the narcotic drug trade. “One could argue the Trump administration is interested in the opioid epidemic and might be interested in its criminal justice consequences,” he said.


    “I simply don’t understand why they would omit any of the tables that they have included from years past.”

    lies, damn lies, and stats...
    I don't get it. Why are you trying to connect Dougy with me? That makes as much sense as the democrats saying Hillary won because she won the popular vote.

    The heart of the argument for this article is, LACs with firearms defend themselves from bad guys and are not committing crimes. It also shows the types of firearms used by criminals as well as the LAC.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    I don't get it. Why are you trying to connect Dougy with me? That makes as much sense as the democrats saying Hillary won because she won the popular vote.

    The heart of the argument for this article is, LACs with firearms defend themselves from bad guys and are not committing crimes. It also shows the types of firearms used by criminals as well as the LAC.
    you know protias, to be honest i also have difficulty figuring out why the kind folk from WI insist on blindly putting BS newspeek material from self serving enities pushing their theme de jour w/o putting any critical thought about the background material the self serving enities used for their article(s) or the credibility of the background material.

    take for example the reference you used, american hand gunner, they used fbi ucr collected data as gospel! oh dear low and behold, seems the data may not be complete or might compromised or biased based solely on the amount of internet hits previous year(s) data had!

    two, the fbi’s data has always been suspect since there is no mandate for nice LE agencies across this nation to report their data; nor what data to reprt; nor any audit to show the agencies’ data is accurate; nor any repercussions to agencies for not reporting!

    that stated, do you truly believe there were ONLY 300 instances across this nation of armed citizens interjecting themselves in events where the alleged bad person sustained fatal injuries?

    critically thought...any citizens in Ca, Il, Ny, or other non-gun friendly communities where nice LE agencies are not allowed or because of their belief their citizen should not carry biases then refuse to submit data represented in the fbi’s ucr?

    now do you understand my wonderment why those from your locale consistently post bs newspeek ?

    sidebar, the nation’s premiere LE agency can’t define the term “mass shooting”
    Last edited by solus; 10-30-2017 at 11:42 AM.
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..."

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Are there only two Wisconsin posters on this forum?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Are there only two Wisconsin posters on this forum?
    OCDO is the "forum."

    Do you perhaps mean on this sub-forum/section?
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 10-30-2017 at 01:53 PM. Reason: fixed
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    OCDO is the "forum."

    Do you perhaps mean on this sub-forum/section?
    No, I meant the whole forum, the OCDO forum.

    protias is referring to only two. solus is referring to more than two. Is one referring to just the thread and the other the entire forum? Inquiring minds want to know......Not really.....

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Of course those LACs broke the law, harming/killing a person is against the law. Fortunately the majority of states have other laws that excuse the LACs law breaking.

    Not really a story these days.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Of course those LACs broke the law, harming/killing a person is against the law. Fortunately the majority of states have other laws that excuse the LACs law breaking.

    Not really a story these days.
    Excusable or justified.
    https://legal-dictionary.thefreedict...sable+Homicide
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I don't get it. Why are you trying to connect Dougy and Protias with me?
    Oh never mind.
    Last edited by Wstar425; 11-03-2017 at 01:31 PM.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wstar425 View Post
    I don't get it. Why are you trying to connect Dougy and Protias with me?
    Oh never mind.
    oh, forgive me Wstar, guess association doesn't necessarily mean guilty...only repeating my upbringing from my momma...you are known with who you hang with.
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..."

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Of course those LACs broke the law, harming/killing a person is against the law. Fortunately the majority of states have other laws that excuse the LACs law breaking.

    Not really a story these days.

    Well, I guess an alternative would have been for them to just stand still and take it. They could be like the early Christians in Rome. Killed by gladiators or eaten by wild animals, but not resisting. How saintly! I think we should recognize that in either case the law was broken and someone was killed. The only difference is who survived. That's the team that I want to be on, even if it means breaking the law. The law is only important if you are alive. The dead don't care about laws and they don't worry about consequences.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    oh, forgive me Wstar, guess association doesn't necessarily mean guilty...only repeating my upbringing from my momma...you are known with who you hang with.
    You are known with whom you hang.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    OK...

    Generally, however, the distinction between justifiable homicide and excusable homicide has largely disappeared, and only the term justifiable homicide is widely used.
    In the paragraph that this is taken from, excusable is explained. Incidentally, RSMo 563.031.1(1) uses justifiable vs. excusable for the scenario given in the paragraph. Your state may use differing language.

    Tomato tomato...
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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