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Force Science and UDs

solus

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…research about unintentional discharges.
Now 171 additional instances have been analyzed, offering a broadening picture of the causes, circumstances, and consequences of “an unplanned activation of the trigger that is outside a handgun’s or long gun’s prescribed use;” i.e., an unintentional discharge.


THREAT LEVEL. More than half of the UDs happened on-duty, overwhelmingly while …performing “highly routine activities,” such as cleaning, clearing, checking, moving, or storing their guns. “A large number of UDs occurred because…falsely assumed the firearm was not loaded.”


CONSEQUENCES. About half the time, UDs cause property damage. But one in five produce injury….
the study provides evidence to suggest that UDs can be caused by a “startle response”… surprised by a sudden sight, sound, or physical contact, causing him to pull the trigger if his finger is inside his trigger guard.


TRAINING TIPS.
1. “…exposure to high-stress training scenarios that incorporate unexpected and intense auditory, visual, and [physical] stimuli….”
2. When handling firearms for routine tasks, such as dry-firing or disassembly, “a critical step is making certain that ammunition is not in the chamber.”
3. Maintaining finger indexing away from the trigger until intentional shooting is imminent is also critical. Unfortunately, “routine range practice may facilitate a strong-but-wrong response by conditioning… to automatically position the finger on the trigger immediately after the firearm is drawn….”

from an illustrious LE scientific research group.

so how, this civilian would have presumed #s 2 & 3 would be second nature since the rest of firearm owning citizens can recite and practice the 3 (or 4) safety rules...
 
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WalkingWolf

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Not sure if those stats show where the UD's took place. They happened when I was still in, but most were at the clearing barrel. Hence the reason for a clearing barrel, most civie UD's unfortunately are not at a clearing barrel. Even the police don't use them.
 

OC for ME

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Either the gun is loaded and in a ready to fire condition or it is not. Not rocket science. Apparently some folks seek mitigating circumstances to explain away their in ability to recall which condition the gun is in when in their hand...pfft!
 

Grapeshot

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+1. I started to comment on clearing barrels, but stifled myself for not wanting to attract disrupters.

An early lesson in classroom safe directions ended with the recommendation for a clearing barrel. At home I use my bookshelf.
A five gallon bucket filled with sand or wet telephone books does a good job.
 

Maverick9

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Not sure if those stats show where the UD's took place. They happened when I was still in, but most were at the clearing barrel. Hence the reason for a clearing barrel, most civie UD's unfortunately are not at a clearing barrel. Even the police don't use them.

Conjecture as to why police or civilian UDs will not use a Clearing barrel, sand-bucket,, water barrel or something when "playing with your gun"?

Civilians can buy them...or make them with a sand-filled bucket (handgun only).

This vid details using 9 bags at $6/bag rubber "mulch". 55 gallon steel drum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh5eTzSRnQA

Interesting chart. Fair use post. see the original here: http://www.forcescience.org/articles/udf.pdf
...
Screen Shot 2017-10-20 at 9.19.59 AM.jpg
 

solus

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Conjecture as to why police or civilian UDs will not use a Clearing barrel, sand-bucket,, water barrel or something when "playing with your gun"?

Civilians can buy them...or make them with a sand-filled bucket (handgun only).

This vid details using 9 bags at $6/bag rubber "mulch". 55 gallon steel drum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh5eTzSRnQA

Interesting chart. Fair use post. see the original here: http://www.forcescience.org/articles/udf.pdf
...
View attachment 13370


alas, as my post stated, another 171 ADDITIONAL instances...this is the OLDE report you cited...
 

WalkingWolf

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How many were Glocks? And to be fair, any gun that requires pulling the trigger to strip the firearm.

IIRC the procedure at the clearing barrel is upon receiving weapon from armorer the gun is taken directly to barrel, while under the watchful eye of the assigned NCO. The gun is handed to the soldier with the bolt open, minus magazine, with the barrel in the barrel the bolt is released, and then the trigger pulled, then a magazine is inserted. Turning in the weapon the gun is again inserted into the barrel, magazine removed, bolt retracted, gun is ready to go back to armory. We didn't have any Glocks but ALL guns were cleared at barrel before cleaning. Most of the UD's that happened when I was in was rifles. Somehow some of these guys managed to get a round in the chamber, and then pull the trigger. Even though that is what the barrel is for it is still an article 15, unless it happens multiple times, then a discharge usually a mutually agreed upon honorable.

Clearing a semi auto is the same procedure, though I do believe the soldiers now are allowed to have a chambered round.
 

Maverick9

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alas, as my post stated, another 171 ADDITIONAL instances...this is the OLDE report you cited...

LOL, and yet you still didn't link it. :roll eyes:

I think the chart is the same, would be.

The problem with these things using 'self-reporting' is similar to self-reported anything, such as dieting or eating - people cheat, data is only as good as the blind faith...of the faithful.

I'm sure it's 10x that or 100x, making your tally moot, no?

In fact at only 340-ish in the entire country for what, a year?; it's almost noise. 340/100,000. I'll come back, can't google ATMo.
 

solus

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LOL, and yet you still didn't link it. :roll eyes:

I think the chart is the same, would be.

The problem with these things using 'self-reporting' is similar to self-reported anything, such as dieting or eating - people cheat, data is only as good as the blind faith...of the faithful.

I'm sure it's 10x that or 100x, making your tally moot, no?

In fact at only 340-ish in the entire country for what, a year?; it's almost noise. 340/100,000. I'll come back, can't google ATMo.

first, the new UD data was just announced after an apparent rudimentarily examination by those number crunchers who put out the 2016 study.

second, the new UD data, is apparently going to be compiled, analyzed and incorporated into a new report, eta unknown.

third, the above ‘facts’ are, in my humble opinion, static per se., as such, were not germane to the overall purpose of my post.

that this illustrous body of ‘highly’ trained group of people apparently fail, > 50% of the time, to follow known safety protocols which result in UDs, is the gist of my post!

that stated, the new question is how many UDs from these professionals were not officially reported and shrugged off as an OPPPsssss, no harm no foul, and we’ll leave the hole in the wall as an example for others, or laugh about it w/colleagues?
 

solus

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A link to Force Science and the study.

http://www.forcescience.org/articles/udf.pdf

respectfully, request the august member from the white oak plantation, et al., put down their mint julep and direct their kind attention to post 13 of this thread where it has been graciously pointed out to that Mid Atlantic "maverick" individual, the report currently being cited is the organization's earlier report (2016) on the subject matter, the purpose of the thread was to point out 171 NEW UDs came to light and were summarily being analyzed and will be incorporated in a forth coming new FS study w/an unk eta.
 
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