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Guys, need advice on a detention

lukaszu

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
73
Location
Brighton
I was at Northglenn Walmart and would not show receipt to employees or the police. In short I was handcuffed temperely detained and disarmed while loss prevention reviewed the tapes. In the end I was humiliated, talked down and banned from all Wal-Mart stores then let go. Looking for lawyer advice.
Thanks
 

Grapeshot

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May 21, 2006
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Valhalla
Think you have a valid complaint regarding police conduct.

Also would contact WalMart main office - the stop far exceeds their policy.

After I have paid for something, it is mine and I do not have to prove it to anyone. When asked for a receipt I tell them "Have a nice day" and keep walking.

Have asked the point blank question, "Are you accusing me of stealling?"
 

lukaszu

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
73
Location
Brighton
Hey grape, yea I did but I got the same answer that I must show them receipt to make sure I paid for it. Both cops kept telling me how I was wrong and I'm wasting their time.. How all this could have been avoided if I just showed the kid the recept. I told him I belive in my rights ALL OF THEM but then he said well Walmart is private property and so on.... Basically cops now work for Walmart too.

Hey by the way a seen an open carrier walking past me, think he had a 1911. Was hard to tell while being handcuffed and surrounded by Walmart employees and cops.
 

Grapeshot

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That is in total violation of WalMart policy.

"A Wal-Mart manager admitted Tuesday that employees can’t detain a customer for declining a receipt check — even when the security alarm is activated."
http://indieregister.com/wal-mart-receipt-check-is-voluntary/

"Before taking further action, the personnel must have reasonable suspicion to believe that you’ve shoplifted. Without that suspicion, the staff cannot stop you from leaving the store. For instance, it would be inappropriate to do any of the following:

 

mnrobitaille

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Jul 7, 2015
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374
Location
Kahlotus, WA
Back when I worked at Walmart as a People Greeter, if the EAS System went off, I would ask the person for their receipt, & just mention to them that somehow an item was not properly scanned by the cashier. Being that my job code was as both a People Greeter & a Cashier, I would just scan the receipt & look for items I knew had the tags in them, then ask the person to let me see the item so I could deactivate it for them. For the times, where there were multiple items where EAS tags would be present, I would just run the wand over the entire bag(s), & if got a beep would ask to see the receipt & explain that I was checking to make sure the cashier had properly scanned the item(s). Almost all the time, somehow the cashier did not properly scan the item & it was not paid for as thought. Not once was I accusatory towards the customer. I basically made the blame of the item going off, the cashier. The times where the person was actually shoplifting, LP &/or Store Management were there to detain.

Concerning the big ticket items, back then, they were still using "security tags" when the item was purchased back in Sporting Goods, Electronics, or Layaway. Those "security tags" would be called out overhead as they were leaving that register & once at the exit, whoever was there would verify the receipt with the product purchased, deactivate the EAS tag, & send the customer on their way, then go over to a phone & page overhead that the "security tag" had cleared the store.
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
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Mar 3, 2013
Messages
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nj
While I believe the OP is correct in standing pat on his belief. The legal issue will be, is the store's policy " unreasonable". ? Keep in mind that private entities make up de- facto policies all the time, unless they are practicing discriminatory actions, some suits will be quickly dismissed.

Incidence such as this, rarely get past summary judgment.. OP will prevail in his civil suit however the case precedent will not be published, nor will store policy be changed. One should also NOT be handcuffed and kidnapped for exercising a right, therein lies the OP"s Cause of Action.
My .02

Best of luck!

Regards
CCJ
 

The Trickster

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Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Messages
216
Location
Arizona
If you haven't already done so, you should consult with an attorney. Assuming no other circumstances were omitted from your account of the incident, you may very well be able to profit from what you experienced while also making an example out of all the parties involved. As has already been stated, once your payment has been cleared/accepted, everything that you purchased immediately becomes YOUR property and unless there is a law that requires you to show a receipt upon request as a condition to exit the store, then they're obviously in the wrong and need to be held accountable. That is, all employees and law enforcement personnel involved.

Best of luck to you and please keep us informed if possible.
 

mnrobitaille

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
374
Location
Kahlotus, WA
If you haven't already done so, you should consult with an attorney. Assuming no other circumstances were omitted from your account of the incident, you may very well be able to profit from what you experienced while also making an example out of all the parties involved. As has already been stated, once your payment has been cleared/accepted, everything that you purchased immediately becomes YOUR property and unless there is a law that requires you to show a receipt upon request as a condition to exit the store, then they're obviously in the wrong and need to be held accountable. That is, all employees and law enforcement personnel involved.

Best of luck to you and please keep us informed if possible.

Per what I have put in bold, how then do you explain the policy at Costco & other warehouse clubs, where in order to exit the unit with merchandise, you must show receipt? Is that not unreasonable?
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
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4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Per what I have put in bold, how then do you explain the policy at Costco & other warehouse clubs, where in order to exit the unit with merchandise, you must show receipt? Is that not unreasonable?
Um, because they're CLUBS, with **membership rules**, which might include a rule that purchasers must show their receipts?

;)
 

Grapeshot

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If you haven't already done so, you should consult with an attorney. Assuming no other circumstances were omitted from your account of the incident, you may very well be able to profit from what you experienced while also making an example out of all the parties involved.--snipped--
Indeed, it would become a teaching/training excercise for all.
 

OC for ME

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Jan 6, 2010
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12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
Cops will not suffer any consequences...QI is in play. Walmart? Another issue and a lawyer is recommended. If the employee violated clear company policy then a jury may side with the OP.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Jul 12, 2011
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3,428
Location
northern wis
If one feels they are being treated unfairly at any business one always have the option of not doing business with them.

If you don't like a stores policy of checking receipts shop some place else.

If the police get involved the police have to abide buy all the rules, laws to effect a search and or arrest. private store employees do not they are not government agents.

If harm is done by the store employees one has the options of suing such and seeking damages.

Damage awards for simply asking for a receipt would most likely be non existent.
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
That is in total violation of WalMart policy.

Agreed. About two weeks ago I was exiting the Walmart near North Academy and I-25 in Colorado Springs at around 1 am. A uniformed security guard (I'd never seen one of those in Walmart before!) approached me as I left the check-out and was headed towards the door. The receipt was in the very bottom of one of about six bags I was hand-carrying. As he moved towards me, I shifted my direction from the door to headed directly for him, and said, "I suppose you want to see my receipt. Hang on... It's buried at the bottom of one of these bags." I set them on the ground. He stopped, and said, "No, that's ok. You're fine."

My point that in mine experience, I've always had far greater success in being treated well, being given the benefit of the doubt, etc, by being forthcoming than I've ever had by being evasive, confrontational, etc.

Now, having said that...

"A Wal-Mart manager admitted Tuesday that employees can’t detain a customer for declining a receipt check — even when the security alarm is activated."
http://indieregister.com/wal-mart-receipt-check-is-voluntary/

"Before taking further action, the personnel must have reasonable suspicion to believe that you’ve shoplifted. Without that suspicion, the staff cannot stop you from leaving the store. For instance, it would be inappropriate to do any of the following:


I agree with Grapeshot, and add this article from USLegal.com: "Is it legal for Wal-Mart to search your bags after you have paid?" Therein, they note, "Basically, nothing in the law gives the merchant the right to detain a customer for the purpose of searching a shopping bag unless there is a reasonable suspicion of retail theft. A customer can refuse to have their bag checked and simply walk out the door past the bag checker," and go on to discuss unlawful detention. There, they state, "A store security guard who detains a customer on suspicion of shoplifting is legally authorized to do so, and is not liable for battery, absent allegations by the plaintiff that he/she was threatened with physical harm or that he/she possessed a well-founded fear of imminent battery. A store employee may use only the force that is necessary to detain the patron."

The key word there is "suspicion of shoplifting," and they note that a customer's refusal to show their receipt does not constitute legally sufficient "suspicion of shoplifting."

Basically, this follows the same guidelines that any of us, as well as the police, must use with respect to detaining a suspect. Here in Colorado, it's "reasonably articulable suspicion," or RAS.

"Probable cause to search for evidence or to seize evidence requires that an officer is possessed of sufficient facts and circumstances as would lead a reasonable person to believe that evidence or contraband relating to criminal activity will be found in the location to be searched. As with an arrest, if an officer cannot articulate the facts forming the basis for probable cause, the search and seizure will not hold up in court." - Source

"Reasonable suspicion is a standard established by the Supreme Court in a 1968 case in which it ruled that police officers should be allowed stop and briefly detain a person if, based upon the officer’s training and experience, there is reason to believe that the individual is engaging in criminal activity. The officer is given the opportunity to freeze the action by stepping in to investigate. Unlike probable cause that uses a reasonable person standard, reasonable suspicion is based upon the standard of a reasonable police officer." Source

Two key things, here: Although we are not police officers, we're held to roughly the same standard, and by "we" I'm talking about those of us who are not law enforcement officers, a list which includes both Walmart employees as well as Walmart security guards.

I included the above for the OP, as some people don't know the difference between RAS and PC, or their definitions.

Here's what I would do if I were in your shoes:

1. Before I obtained an attorney, I would try the good, old-fashioned approach by writing a letter.

2. Write a detailed narrative, date, time, location, description of all involved - each and every detail you can possibly remember. Do NOT give this narrative to ANYONE except your attorney.

3. Write the manager a polite, but short letter in which you state the date, time, and location of the unlawful detention. Don't argue the point. Simply state it as a fact. "Just the facts, Ma'am." Something like:

On the fifth of June, at approximately 11:35 pm, at the Walmart in Northglenn, Colorado, I went through the checkout counter, paid for my goods, and proceeded to the doors where I was asked for my receipt. Commensurate with local, state, and federal law, as well as Walmart corporate policy, I politely refused, then proceeded to my car. I was unlawfully detained, during which time I was both handcuffed and disarmed while loss prevention reviewed the tapes.

I cannot allow such unlawful behavior to remain unaddressed.

I respectfully request a full review of the employees' and security guard's actions, along with a sincere letter of apology.

Sincerely,

First, MI, Last

CC: Walmart Corporate
Northglenn Police Department
Representative (State legislature)
Representative (Congressman)


4. Send it via registered mail, return receipt required, to all five parties.

Walmart has a long history of people making mistakes at the local level, only to have Corporate bend over backwards to smooth things over. This letter puts them on notice and gives them a chance to respond appropriately.

This letter also provides you (along with a possible future attorney, should you wish to pursue that route) with a ton of potential ammo should Walmart flub it, try to cover it up, minimize what happened, etc.

Alternatively, if you're more comfortable paying attorney fees than writing a letter, by all means, it's fully within your rights to hire an attorney at this time. I am certainly not advising you to the contrary! If that's what you feel you need to do, by all means, do it.

5. If they flub it, and I felt inclined to pursue the matter, I would then...

6. Gather all evidence, including both the letter, any responses, and that detailed narrative of the account I mentioned in point 2, above.

7. Call an attorney.
 
Last edited:

countryclubjoe

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Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
!

Judgement Affirmed! "[ ... ]A Walmart employee asked McKee to produce a receipt, but McKee refused and exited the store. An off-duty South Euclid police officer working as a security guard for Walmart followed McKee to the parking lot, stopped him, and instructed him to produce his receipt. Maintaining that he had no legal obligation to do so, McKee again refused to show his receipt. The security guard called for police assistance. Two officers responded and ordered McKee to show identification. He refused, causing the officers to place him under arrest. McKee then relented and showed the police his identification and receipt, at which point they released him without charge. In response to McKee’s citizen complaint about the incident, the police sought an opinion from the city law director, who concluded that the police officers acted appropriately by detaining McKee when he failed to identify himself while being held on suspicion of shoplifting. [ ... ]"

This case is a horrible decision in my humble opinion.
See Brown v Texas, 443 U.S. 47, S.CT 2637.. ( 1979).. Brown v Texas should trump the case at bar.

My .02
CCJ
 

The Trickster

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Messages
216
Location
Arizona
Per what I have put in bold, how then do you explain the policy at Costco & other warehouse clubs, where in order to exit the unit with merchandise, you must show receipt? Is that not unreasonable?

Costco, Sam's Club, etc. are membership-only clubs which require customers to agree to a contract in order to shop in their stores. Within their contracts is a clause which states that members shall submit to a receipt check upon exiting the store with merchandise.
 

The Trickster

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Messages
216
Location
Arizona
I'm seldom asked to produce a receipt when leaving Walmart, but on occasion it happens. Maybe it's just me, but it seems that Walmarts in nice areas don't check receipts while Walmarts in not-so-nice areas do. Anyway, I always fold my receipts after checking out and store them in my back pocket. That said, receipt checkers have never pressed the issue with me once I offer to let them reach into my back pocket in order to remove the receipt and check it. :rolleyes::p:lol:
 

lukaszu

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
73
Location
Brighton
To be clear..

It's started with May I see your receipt - no you may not.
The employee blocked me from leaving with his body then ripped the item out of my hand
Second police officer told me... Either i produce recept or i will be handcuffed and detained untill this gets resolved.... I also said no you may not see my receipt.... So i was detained and disarmed. And no time did I curse or lose my bearing.

I don't wanna give to much more detail because I'm still lawyer shopping and honestly this may not be a easy win case so I'm kinda having g a hard time finding a patriot lawyer.

Bytheway... Does anyone know the fella involved in the Thornton theater incident few years back? Might / could use his lawyer.
 

lukaszu

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
73
Location
Brighton
If one feels they are being treated unfairly at any business one always have the option of not doing business with them.

If you don't like a stores policy of checking receipts shop some place else.

If the police get involved the police have to abide buy all the rules, laws to effect a search and or arrest. private store employees do not they are not government agents.

If harm is done by the store employees one has the options of suing such and seeking damages.

Damage awards for simply asking for a receipt would most likely be non existent.

9​

I am now band by Walmart 1 year and westminster with 10 years
 
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