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Does Mandating license plates violate " Our right to Privacy"?

countryclubjoe

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Thank you David, great info... The right to be left alone is I think the most sacred of all our rights...

The fact that the state mandates that we must apply a piece of metal on our very own property, metal containing all our personal info for anyone to retrieve seems unconstitutional to me, not to even consider that they are also mandating that we 'contract" with them.

I want no contact, or contract with the state or any of its agency's.. Hence I simply want to be left alone..

Licensing is simply a cash cow and not for any good of the citizen.

Regards
 

countryclubjoe

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Oh, my heaven's yes. I totally agree.

But, I'm going to take the conversation in a different direction by questioning the premise. Not yours, CCJ--the court's when it started down the path of privacy.

At the bottom, this is not my original idea. I read it somewhere several years ago. The author's analysis was to me so striking that I nearly dropped my coffee (code for good scotch) on my keyboard.

Today, one of the touch-stones of court analysis on the Fourth Amendment (search and seizure) is privacy. Their analysis includes the question whether a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy in this or that. If the court finds he does, the search--and whatever it discovered--may be invalidated and suppressed. One of the way's the courts analyze whether a person had a "reasonable" expectation of privacy is to examine whether "society" would recognize or agree with that "expectation of privacy."

Well that author I read several years ago pointed out something. The Fourth Amendment doesn't mention privacy; it mentions security. "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects..."

By shifting the premise to privacy, the Supreme Court minimized the security angle, and granted itself large, new power. Think about it for a second. The supreme court declares that society does or does not consider a certain thing private. What does that really mean? It means the supreme court set itself up as mind-readers of each of 300 million members of America (society). And, that is on each privacy question that comes before the court on a search-and-seizure angle (and, probably the other angles, but I cannot say for sure.) My, my, my. What a herculean effort that must be. Why, we should all bow down and thank those justices for the massive time and mental concentration it must take to read all those minds. And, we cannot forget the federal circuit courts of appeal--they have to do the same thing every time a new privacy question comes before them.

Let me tell you how bad its gotten. Its gotten so bad, that after the initial privacy angle, the courts have declared that if you don't hide something from view or discovery by others, then you didn't consider it private--and it is no longer protected by the Fourth Amendment. Yep. You cannot feel secure in your own mind by your own understanding of whether others will or won't snoop, look closer, etc. No, you have to actively hide something to prove your interest in keeping it private. Well, when you're in public with whichever possession, anyway.

Can it really be long before not drawing your curtains is declared that you had no expectation of privacy inside your house? No, no, no. You cannot rely on your trust in most of your fellow human beings not to stare in from the street. Nope. At some point, perhaps not far, failing to draw your curtains will be proof that you didn't mind government pressing their nose against your window.

Privacy is also a wedge, the camel's nose under the tent. And, a false, invented premise, at least when it comes to search-and-seizure.

Can anybody cite even one single supreme court case where the court analyzes a case based on security: the right to be secure in our persons, houses, papers, and effects?

Thank you Citizen, very informative.

Mandating citizens to purchase their property than apply said property to our property, seems unjust.. Also the property that they force us to purchase is simply on loan, we do not actually own the plates... Talk about tyranny..

Regards
 

countryclubjoe

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May I politely suggest a case decided by the US Supreme Court? One decided unanimously? Reno v. Condon. Going to be just a little bit hard for a state or district court to say the USSC is wrong.

Thank you for the case. Very informative and helps my theory a bit.. Folks should have privacy in their property, no one should know who is behind the wheel of a vehicle, it should be on ones business... However by applying the states property onto our property, any government actor or criminal can retrieve our personal information..

My .02

Regards
 

countryclubjoe

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Without getting too deep into the conversation, I would say there is no expectation of privacy on a public highway. Registration, insurance, DL are not mandated for private property.


Correct, however it is the states mandate of the license plate that actually strips away our privacy..

Regards
 

davidmcbeth

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Thank you Citizen, very informative.

Mandating citizens to purchase their property than apply said property to our property, seems unjust.. Also the property that they force us to purchase is simply on loan, we do not actually own the plates... Talk about tyranny..

Regards

And think about property taxes .. you don't pay and they can just take your property away w/o compensation. I've seen $200 tax cases that cost the owner a $200,000 piece of property.
 

countryclubjoe

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And think about property taxes .. you don't pay and they can just take your property away w/o compensation. I've seen $200 tax cases that cost the owner a $200,000 piece of property.

Indeed, we never really own property if said property can be taken away for failing to pay a tax on said property.. My .02

Regards
 

countryclubjoe

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And think about property taxes .. you don't pay and they can just take your property away w/o compensation. I've seen $200 tax cases that cost the owner a $200,000 piece of property.

Let's revert back to the licensing scam again.. Please espouse your thoughts on the purchase of a drivers license, could said purchase be considered a contract? A contract that the state is actually mandating us to enter into however they have no responsible regarding said contract.. We surrender our right to travel for the so called state privilege of driving and agreeing to abide by the traffic laws. So if the cash for license transaction is indeed a contract between both parties, than in theory the state/DMV is mandating its citizens to enter into a contract with them.. However I am not certain if said transaction would be construed as a " contract" under contract law... Your thoughts..

Regards

CCJ
 

Fallschirjmäger

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"... it is the states mandate of the license plate that actually strips away our privacy.
If I might ask, exactly what privacy is stripped away? Can John Q. Public find out your house address just by your car tag? Will the DMV release your name to an caller without justifiable reason?

They should not have the right to mandate a citizen purchase their property and apply said property onto our property..
Their property was made by some convict making 1$ a day, and they want to charge a citizen $48.00 for the privilege of applying said plate to citizens property, exposing citizens personal information for all to see.
So, say I call up the New Jersey Department of Motor Vehicles and give them the number of your car tag along with a description of your auto. Are they going to tell me where you live?

is our vehicle not private property?
License plate is only required for public highways, it is not mandated for private property.
WW beat me to it, but allow me to explain further.
NO license plate is required on an automobile UNLESS it is being operated on Public Roadways. You do not need a tag on a car in your garage, nor one on a privately owned racetrack, nor on a farm or other private property.
 
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Grapeshot

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--snipped--
NO license plate is required on an automobile UNLESS it is being operated on Public Roadways. You do not need a tag on a car in your garage, nor one on a privately owned racetrack, nor on a farm or other private property.
Some states/municipalities require that if a vehicle is not licensed (both state and municipality), operative, and inspected then it may only be stored in a 3 sided (or more) enclosure or fitted with a car cover even if on your own property....and only one such vehicle.

Part of the info trail on one such example:
http://www.chesterfield.gov/content2.aspx?id=16788
 

WalkingWolf

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Some states/municipalities require that if a vehicle is not licensed (both state and municipality), operative, and inspected then it may only be stored in a 3 sided (or more) enclosure or fitted with a car cover even if on your own property....and only one such vehicle.

Part of the info trail on one such example:
http://www.chesterfield.gov/content2.aspx?id=16788

Are you talking zoning ordinances? Which I do not agree with.
 

davidmcbeth

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Let's revert back to the licensing scam again.. Please espouse your thoughts on the purchase of a drivers license, could said purchase be considered a contract? A contract that the state is actually mandating us to enter into however they have no responsible regarding said contract.. We surrender our right to travel for the so called state privilege of driving and agreeing to abide by the traffic laws. So if the cash for license transaction is indeed a contract between both parties, than in theory the state/DMV is mandating its citizens to enter into a contract with them.. However I am not certain if said transaction would be construed as a " contract" under contract law... Your thoughts..

Regards

CCJ

I have never signed such a contract. One can never surrender a right ... contracts cannot superseded a right. IMO

If a contact says you are forfeiting your right for this or that (a true right) ... it is void in that respect.
 

countryclubjoe

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Your person is considered private, but in public there is no expectation of privacy.

Yes however one is not required to wear a license tag around their neck..

So your ok with the government reading your tags and running the tag number for no reason other than that they CAN and DO...

I recall that at one time you actually were part of that "cash cow" scam, living off the labor of others and taking orders from tyrants and thieves.
 

countryclubjoe

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If I might ask, exactly what privacy is stripped away? Can John Q. Public find out your house address just by your car tag? Will the DMV release your name to an caller without justifiable reason? John Q citizen NO, but any LEO or government agent can.


So, say I call up the New Jersey Department of Motor Vehicles and give them the number of your car tag along with a description of your auto. Are they going to tell me where you live? Probably not however a sophisticated crook or pedophile with determination probably could.



WW beat me to it, but allow me to explain further.
NO license plate is required on an automobile UNLESS it is being operated on Public Roadways. You do not need a tag on a car in your garage, nor one on a privately owned racetrack, nor on a farm or other private property.
Thanks for the geography lesson..
 

countryclubjoe

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If I might ask, exactly what privacy is stripped away? Can John Q. Public find out your house address just by your car tag? Will the DMV release your name to an caller without justifiable reason?


So, say I call up the New Jersey Department of Motor Vehicles and give them the number of your car tag along with a description of your auto. Are they going to tell me where you live?



WW beat me to it, but allow me to explain further.
NO license plate is required on an automobile UNLESS it is being operated on Public Roadways. You do not need a tag on a car in your garage, nor one on a privately owned racetrack, nor on a farm or other private property.

Most folks travel in their automobile on public roadways using state issued mandated license plates therefore putting their personal information in view of others that may wish do them ill will or some government agent that wishes to violated their rights under the 4th, 5th, 9th and 14th amendment..Simply because said government CAN and WILL hence the tag is a violation of a citizens right to privacy..

You seem to like querying folks on this board, so please allow me the same pleasure.. Are you or were you ever a LEO or some type of government agent?... Thank you for your reply.
 

Fallschirjmäger

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Most folks travel in their automobile on public roadways using state issued mandated license plates therefore putting their personal information in view of others that may wish do them ill will or some government agent that wishes to violated their rights under the 4th, 5th, 9th and 14th amendment..Simply because said government CAN and WILL hence the tag is a violation of a citizens right to privacy..

You seem to like querying folks on this board, so please allow me the same pleasure.. Are you or were you ever a LEO or some type of government agent?... Thank you for your reply.

Yet again I must ask...
WHAT personal information may be gleaned by John Q. Citizen by reading the numbers/letters on a car plate?
 
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WalkingWolf

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Yes however one is not required to wear a license tag around their neck..

So your ok with the government reading your tags and running the tag number for no reason other than that they CAN and DO...

I recall that at one time you actually were part of that "cash cow" scam, living off the labor of others and taking orders from tyrants and thieves.

You don't think people recognize who you are? Take pictures? Ask others "Who is that?"

Simple solution~~just stay at home.
 

Grapeshot

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Are you talking zoning ordinances? Which I do not agree with.

Yes, in part.

I have never signed such a contract. One can never surrender a right ... contracts cannot superseded a right. IMO

If a contact says you are forfeiting your right for this or that (a true right) ... it is void in that respect.
Everyone that signs a military elistment document, signs away certain rights/freedoms.
 
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