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For black gun owners, bearing arms is a civil rights issue

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
What made you presume that when I said 'culture' that I meant black? After all, didn't I ask you if YOU were Native American? It seems you presume a lot...

You mean you are here commenting and you did not even bother to read the OP?

What the hell do you think we are talking about, black, and African American has been mentioned several times. I doubt you are that slow you did not know what culture we are discussing. And I am not slow enough to buy your backtracking.

What if I told you I was a Jew?
 
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solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
What made you presume that when I said 'culture' that I meant black? After all, didn't I ask you if YOU were Native American? It seems you presume a lot...

BTW, why would you jump to the conclusion WW might be a Native American?

again, thanks fto the linguists...culture:

1. N the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.
2. N BIOLOGY
the cultivation of bacteria, tissue cells, etc., in an artificial medium containing nutrients.
1 V BIOLOGY -maintain (tissue cells, bacteria, etc.) in conditions suitable for growth.

i hope this assists you in the proper articulation of ethnic discussions.

ipse
 
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solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
For a supposed philosopher, you seem to claim the high ground with your avatar and your
'old school' speak.

How much real world interaction have you had AND how much of such would you need to connect the dots?

lol...the interaction(s) i have had with the world are known but to a few...

i have needed very few dots to connect as you have put yours on the table on a public forum...you might examine your own actions per se and determine if you feel the connected dots are truly how you feel.

ipse
 

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
If inviting them to our community bothers you, maybe you should take it up with the moderators, and owners.

I hope you never need a organ transplant and the only one available is from a person from that "culture".

Maybe I missed something, but I didn't see any racism Turbod`1. Accusing racism in the absence of racism is an intellectual lazy way to shut down discussion, as opposed to learning from each other.

I like how you used the word culture instead of saying black, that is the kinda stuff that signals a problem. We are all humans, we share the same organs, our only difference is our outward appearance. The culture/black is not the way you assume because they are black, there are factors that have affected their culture for decades. Most politicians are Caucasian, and they were the biggest factor in their culture. WE elected these politicians.

WalkingWolf is still butt-sore over me exposing some of his prejudices and internal inconsistencies a while back and so won't deign to respond. Just as well because what follows is intended for those who don't cry "racism" or "bigotry" at the first hint of disagreement. Those willing to read something longer than a tweat might find something to think about. Those who find anything beyond 100 characters taxing, can stop reading now.

Not a lot of blacks in Utah. Utah never had any significant number of slaves, and it was never a major industrial area in need of cheap labor. And stereotypes notwithstanding, not much racism, very little hate. Some ignorance and political incorrectness, to be sure. But not much real hatred. My high school history teacher told us of two interesting accounts from his younger days.

He related seeing the buses from California coming through our Southern Utah town full of American citizens of Japanese ancestry who were being forcibly "relocated" to the Topaz internment camp. The two families of Japanese descent who lived in our town, however, were left entirely unmolested. One, they were outside the sensitive areas covered by FDR's relocation order. Two, it was a small town, everyone knew everyone else, and there was no question as to the loyalties of this family.

He also mentioned an incident in the 50s or 60s when the KKK came through town attempting to recruit members. Lots of leaflets. Not any success. The homogenous Utah hicks just didn't have any interest in being hateful or keeping anyone down.

That said, I recently had a very interesting and enlightening discussion with a colleague who happens to be black. He is a well educated, very competent engineer with an upper middle class income a lovely family. His extended family are primarily in one of the large, northern industrial areas. In discussing the conditions there he said simply and starkly, "They want to have the same lifestyle and results I have, but they are not willing to make the changes to their culture that would bring about those results. You can' choose to live like they choose to live and have a good job and live in a safe neighborhood. It takes work and education, and more work."

He then went on to say something else, "But in some ways, the culture is their identity. The white man forced us out of his culture so we made our own. We have our own dialect, we name our children differently than white folks name theirs. And a lot of is all about a big 'F you' to the culture that segregated us and kept us down for so long."

It wasn't the words so much as the intensity, even anger, with which he said these final statements that took be back.

Intellectually, he recognizes that his extended family members and others living in the black culture could choose to work hard, get an education and job skills, and live the American dream like he has done. Emotionally there is still anger that justifies not making those choices but instead living in a culture that defines identity separate from the white man.

I do not accept responsibility for the problems within the poor inner-city (or "black") culture. I wasn't alive in 1700, or 1860, or even 1960. Nobody in my family owned slaves or pushed for Jim Crow laws.

But after listening honestly and without judgment to someone with a different perspective, I think I have a little better understanding of the challenges and dichotomy those in that culture face.

It strikes me as very similar to the challenges of the American Indians in this part of the nation. Their identity is often wrapped up in the Reservation system. It is a false identity in that the Reservation lifestyle was imposed by force of the US Government / Military in the late 19th and early 20th century. It bears very little resemblance to the hunter/gatherer, nomadic lifestyle that the tribes of the Great Basin region. But it seems to be the only identity they have.

Sadly, in most cases, the culture of the reservation is one of living on the dole, alcoholism, drug addiction, unwed pregnancy and birth, and a shunning of eduation and literacy and most anything else associated with the "white man's ways". The resulting poverty, health problems, violent crime, and other personal and social ills are easily predicted and heartbreaking.

Like blacks living in the inner city, Navajos (and Apaches, and Utes) living on the Reservation are perfectly free to make different choices, to leave the reservation and live the American dream. There are scholarship programs a plenty and outreach from Universities begging these kids to stay in school and then come to college.

But when academic success in grade school is reason to be shunned, when getting pregnant at 15 and formally dropping out of high school is the norm, when alcohol and drug abuse and violence are a normal part of life, a lot of choices can be foreclosed long before a kid reaches the age when he might be expected to start making choices for himself.

I've repeatedly written here and said elsewhere that it is greatly to the advantage of the RKBA community to have members who are not middle-aged, white, Christian, heterosexual men. Women in fear of or who have survived a rape are much harder to dismiss than are healthy middle aged men. Racial minorities facing potential hate crimes or living in high crime neighbors make a more powerful case for personal ownership and carrying of self-defense guns than do popular majorities living in gated communities. Homosexuals subject to bashing can appeal to left-leaning politicians far better than I can. We should not only welcome, but actively recruit anyone we can to the RKBA community. That goes double for anyone who looks different than does the stereotypical "redneck" gun owner.

It would be good for our nation if we could figure out how to solve inter-racial challenges. Such would tremendously good for individuals living in cultures--that often correlate strongly with or are even defined by racial or ethnic demographics--whose mores result in poverty, violence, addiction, and other ills.

I don't claim to know how to do that. I'm pretty sure it will require being willing to listen to some things with which we disagree, and which make us uncomfortable, without trying to shut down the conversation by resorting to claims of "racism", bigotry, or laziness, stupidity, or any other character flaw. That is as true for racial, ethnic, and sexual minorities as it is for white men.

Charles
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
Maybe I missed something, snipp..

Those who find anything beyond 100 characters taxing, can stop reading now.

Not a lot of blacks in Utah.

That said, I recently had a very interesting and enlightening discussion with a colleague who happens to be black. He is a well educated, very competent engineer with an upper middle class income a lovely family.

But after listening honestly and without judgment to someone with a different perspective,

snipped

Charles

you are right mate there are not a lot of blacks in UTAH, 2000 census, whites make up 95.2%, while blacks account for only 1.14%!!

let's understand this, you had a conversation with a well educated black individual making six figures who works as an eng for an aerospace company... ya that is representative of that SES cohort. they do not have a different perspective ~ from your white middle class elitist background.

how bout we put your 'gee i want to talk to a group of minority, SES citizens' in the middle of detroit's slums to talk about your polite chit chat questions and see about the anger manifesting from them.

finally, you are right, you can not do anything for SES blacks, natives, or other entities as you lack the ability.

guess what, no book mate just pointing out your fallible logic....

ipse
 
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Turbod'1

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Messages
181
Location
Henderson, NV now Texas. I move a lot.
What made you presume that when I said 'culture' that I meant black? After all, didn't I ask you if YOU were Native American? It seems you presume a lot...

It was late and I miss-spoke as I was on an uncontrolled roll: I DID mean black culture, as I DID read the OP as well as my anecdotal "Stop snitch'n" observation eluding to such. My bad.

BTW, why would you jump to the conclusion WW might be a Native American?

That's a tough one! His name is "WALKINGWOLF" (not sure what other kinds there are) and his avatar clearly looks like a Native American. Are you too PC to allow yourself that leap?

You mean you are here commenting and you did not even bother to read the OP?

What the hell do you think we are talking about, black, and African American has been mentioned several times. I doubt you are that slow you did not know what culture we are discussing. And I am not slow enough to buy your backtracking.

Not sure what backtracking I've done (you said tracking, heh) other than my above admission. "Culture" is really the issue and that's something that is essentially impossible to change from the outside. Even internally, there exist people who attempt to separate themselves from established norm, only to be called "Sellouts", "Coon", "Uncle Ruckas".

These days, it seems the stated standard for racism is: "Power"+"Privilege" and it seems that privilege actually GRANTS power.

i have needed very few dots to connect as you have put yours on the table on a public forum...you might examine your own actions per se and determine if you feel the connected dots are truly how you feel

You couldn't connect the dots on how one might presume WW was a NA. Also, "Per se" is redundant and rather pretentious. Don't church it up son (That said, I appreciated your response in another thread related to the 2A and non firearms.)


Summary. I have NO problems with any group who seeks the furtherance of our common goal. Unless it becomes a broken down, hyphenated, collection of sub categories: Whites42A, Blacks42A, Hispanic42A, Natives42A, Asians42A etc... ONE Team.
 
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