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Thread: Open Carry Idaho Report

  1. #76
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    COSTCO - A recent company change of attitude?

    This is from the Jackson Hole Tea Party.com BLOG page, an item I wrote.

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    Locally, well not too local, an anti-gun attitude was met in Pocatello, Idaho.
    For years the Costco big box store got some business from this shopper while wearing a side arm, all the time with little or no attention by the staff. Discussions occurred with employees, in clear sight of the side arm. They were questioned on the location and availability of goods. Then on Thursday, September 13, all that changed.

    This shopper was challenged by the greeter at the door saying, “you can not enter carrying a gun”. The action was questioned and the reply was that it was “policy”. It was pointed out that no signs were visible citing any restriction of entry with a firearm. The employee replied that the policy was printed in the membership form. The warehouse general manager was not available but an assistant manager repeated the policy.

    I was directed to leave the firearm in the car, but the potential hazard of doing that while shopping was explained. The safest place for the side arm would be on my hip. The hazard to the shopper and the store of being denied the tools for legal self defense while in the store were explained, all to no avail. When it was asked the answer was “no, they did not have a secure locker where firearm carriers could leave their side arms”. Law enforcement officers who are NOT in uniform and not on duty are also asked to leave. What happened with Costo to cause this sudden change in activity? We were not told.

    The clear option was to inform the manager that the membership would be canceled and shopping will be done at a more friendly store. We then visited the Sam’s Club store in Idaho Falls and, while wearing the side arm, specifically talked to the management about their policy. In a word the reply was “no problem”. The shopper membership is now at Sam’s Club in Idaho Falls, about 100 miles less travel to do the shopping.

    What can you do?

    When you encounter a block along your path of freedom, note it, check the facts and then act, or at least speak out. Inform those blocking your path that you will take your business elsewhere - and then Do So. Apply the “No Guns - No Money” lesson and cards mentioned above when you encounter the occasional restriction.
    ---------------

    In response to the above one Blog reader raised the following issue to which I replied as below.

    "If I were in a big box store and I saw someone with an exposed firearm, I would leave immediately Not knowing why that person was armed, I would not stick around to find out."

    My reply was;

    The person carrying a firearm legally (not criminal intent) IS the person you want out in public. They can defend themselves and therefore those around them.

    The person open carrying is NOT out to cause trouble or attack anyone. Criminals would have hidden agendas and weapons, and they would ignore any signs or store policy anyway.

    The open carrier does so for several reasons. 1) clothing may not be sufficient to properly conceal the firearm, especially in summer warmer days. 2) Concealed carry may not be an option (not a resident of the state, etc) 3) Open carry can make it easier to bring a firearm into action if needed. 4) Open carry makes it easier to identify the person carrying a firearm - AND that makes him a possible FIRST target for the criminal. This is a known and accepted risk. 5) Open carry makes it easy to strike up a conversation with a knowing and unafraid person. I have had MANY very good conversations over the years.

    If I had been carrying concealed I would have just walked in and no one would have been the wiser. Contact me any time for a free and easy familiarization and training session with firearms.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobcul View Post
    This is from the Jackson Hole Tea Party.com BLOG page, an item I wrote.

    -------------------
    ... What happened with Costo to cause this sudden change in activity? We were not told. ...
    Costco...been anti-2A from the get go. Costco don't want your business,Costco don't need your business.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobcul View Post
    ---------------

    In response to the above one Blog reader raised the following issue to which I replied as below.

    "If I were in a big box store and I saw someone with an exposed firearm, I would leave immediately Not knowing why that person was armed, I would not stick around to find out." ...
    Would you stick around if you did not know a citizen were armed...with a firearm that is. Liberals and there illogical mental deficiencies.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  3. #78
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Well bobcul, this very subject has been discussed numerous times on this here forum’s thread(s):

    1. It is well known the company’s membership agreement states no firearms, OC’d or CC’d. In fact, they will refund your membership fee if you’re really upset about it.

    2. Costco, as a private membership entity, has the signage at the door stating, ‘members acknowledge their agreement to by enter’ or such language.

    3. Sorry, the violation of concept of carrying, OC’g or CC’g, where I have personally signed a contract agreeing not to carry firearms within or on their property is an ethical issue I personally won’t abrogate as a responsible firearm carrier.

    4. Noticed with interest in your numerated response did not address the main purpose to carry in the first place...protection of self and loved ones!

    Wally world/Sam’s always had OC’g as long as permitted by state mandates.
    Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively. Delai Lama XIV

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  4. #79
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Seen it said that one could die trying.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  5. #80
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    COSTCO - Update - A change of attitude?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Seen it said that one could die trying.
    In responding to several of the comments. The focus of my comment on COSTCO was ONLY to point out the shift I encountered in their reaction to carrying a sidearm. I had openly carried for years, knowing full well about their membership written prohibition on firearms. I had encountered employees many times and had face-to-face discussions with some. I had visited the customer service desk on occasion when my wife had business with them.

    Then last week things changed - dramatically. I knew when the greeter at the door looked at me that he was going to challenge me. Going from a "No Worries" (unstated) attitude to a strong prohibition was, again, dramatic. What happened at COSTCO to cause this? What high level discussions were held or orders given? I heard nothing in the news - it must have been a high level decision to crack down. That was the whole reason for me to write to this forum, as I had in the past since about 2009.

    BTW - My several points about Open Carry in reply to one of the JHtP Blog readers was to explain SOME of the reasons to Open Carry as opposed to concealed. Obviously I was carrying to be able to defend myself and others, I was just explaining some of my reasons. FWIW - having done a lot of gun rights political action work back in Maryland (see MCSM.org), being able to strike up a conversation with the public is a major advantage of open carrying. Here in Wyoming that is not too often with the locals - but the visitors are anxious and appreciative of the discussion, especially those from England, China, and etc.

    My advice is to keep up waving the flag, open carrying or what ever the flag is, to reinforce your freedom with the public.

    Bob Cul

  6. #81
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobcul View Post
    ... Then last week things changed - dramatically. I knew when the greeter at the door looked at me that he was going to challenge me. Going from a "No Worries" (unstated) attitude to a strong prohibition was, again, dramatic. What happened at COSTCO to cause this? ...

    Bob Cul
    What happened? What changed? The change that occurred happened back in November of 2016. It took a wee bit of time to work its way up to Wyoming. Take this small change as a sign that Wyoming is changing...and likely not for the better.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  7. #82
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    What happened? What changed? The change that occurred happened back in November of 2016. It took a wee bit of time to work its way up to Wyoming. Take this small change as a sign that Wyoming is changing...and likely not for the better.
    I am sure it has nothing to do with firearm carry specifically, perhaps, just perhaps COSTCO’s local/area mgmt was too permissive in their enforcement of all overarching company policies and Corp Sr mgmt brought in new mgmt who weren’t part of the ‘good olde we do it our way group’ told them to tighten up across the board ~ no exceptions whatsoever!

    New mgmt see raises and promotion in their future so off they march cleaning up the store with a heavy hand ...[in another life, been there, done this, enjoyed the revenue and you only have to terminate a couple of egregious offenders and then everybody decides to play nice by establish policies - thus a new store culture is born and inbred across the board]

    Further, everyone’s attention to this 2013 OCDO thread: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...mit-in-Wyoming
    Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively. Delai Lama XIV

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  8. #83
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    More on COSTCO

    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    I am sure it has nothing to do with firearm carry specifically, perhaps, just perhaps COSTCO’s local/area mgmt was too permissive in their enforcement of all overarching company policies and Corp Sr mgmt brought in new mgmt who weren’t part of the ‘good olde we do it our way group’ told them to tighten up across the board ~ no exceptions whatsoever!

    New mgmt see raises and promotion in their future so off they march cleaning up the store with a heavy hand ...[in another life, been there, done this, enjoyed the revenue and you only have to terminate a couple of egregious offenders and then everybody decides to play nice by establish policies - thus a new store culture is born and inbred across the board]

    Further, everyone’s attention to this 2013 OCDO thread: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...mit-in-Wyoming
    This may be the answer, a reasonable assumption of a system wide crack down. When I talked to the Management folks about the firearm policy they said it was system wide. I commented that this is Idaho, a gun friendly state, not California or Illinois etc. His reply the policy applied in all locations. Someone must have gotten to the "back woods" stores to bring them into line.

    I am not sure what the November 2016 comment in the item by OC above means other than the last presidential election and an anti-gun backlash against the Trump administration and activism on gun rights.

    I like the manager statement else where that 'if they posted no-guns on the store they would loose half their business'. How prophetic and how inviting to try to force them to publicly post the stores and own publicly own up to their anti-gun position. This forum is getting the message out to its members, those in the know, but NOT to the public. The issue needs an aggressive news article about it. Something along the lines of corporate policies infringing the Second Amendment. Any suggestions?

    Bob

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobcul View Post
    This may be the answer, a reasonable assumption of a system wide crack down. When I talked to the Management folks about the firearm policy they said it was system wide. I commented that this is Idaho, a gun friendly state, not California or Illinois etc. His reply the policy applied in all locations. Someone must have gotten to the "back woods" stores to bring them into line.

    I am not sure what the November 2016 comment in the item by OC above means other than the last presidential election and an anti-gun backlash against the Trump administration and activism on gun rights.

    I like the manager statement else where that 'if they posted no-guns on the store they would loose half their business'. How prophetic and how inviting to try to force them to publicly post the stores and own publicly own up to their anti-gun position. This forum is getting the message out to its members, those in the know, but NOT to the public. The issue needs an aggressive news article about it. Something along the lines of corporate policies infringing the Second Amendment. Any suggestions?

    Bob
    I suspect that the Costco listed above did not mention your OC'd handgun during the Obama administration...no? What has changed since Bush 43...November 2000?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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