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Hawaii Takes Gun Control One Step Further

DonRow

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Messages
56
Location
Kalaheo, Hawaii, United States
Socialism only can work by force, and of course you want to disarm those you will be taking from otherwise it might be harder to force you to abide by their rules. :D

Exactly!! What was one of the first things hitler did when he came into power, one of the things he did was take the guns away from people, and told them the government will protect them.


Don't tell me what to do with my money and don't tell me what to do with my body.

I live by this every single day.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

cloudcroft

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,908
Location
El Paso, TX (formerly Colorado Springs, CO)
New 9th District Court ruling should impact Hawaii's "no-issue" permit system?

From the California sub-forum:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...eruta-v-San-Diego-Motions-to-Intervene-Denied

*****************************

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...-En-Banc-Shall-Issue-for-Ninth-Circuit-Upheld

Excerpt from the above 2nd link/post (in "News & Political Alerts" sub-forum):

"Hawaii just lost its highly restrictive permiting "may issue" scheme that prevented nearly anyone but a few security guards from carrying arms in Hawaii (outside of government officials). It appears that the only alternative is for the Supreme Court to hear an appeal of the Ninth Circuit ruling. Who would have standing to appeal is unclear. Both Sheriff Gore and San Diego County have indicated that they will not appeal."

***********************************

Here is another article (which gives more info and in more understandable layman's terms) seen elsewhere on this latest development:

http://www.ammoland.com/2014/11/per...issue-for-ninth-circuit-upheld/#axzz3IvCv9Dfa

Excerpt from the 3rd link's article:

"Today, 12 November, 2014, the Ninth Circuit denied the motions to intervene, thus denying requests for an en banc hearing for the decision. Therefore, Peruta stands as the law of the land in the Ninth Circuit. This means that effectively, some version of “shall issue” carry law will become law in all of the Ninth Circuit."

***********************************

...and Hawaii is in the 9th Circuit.
 
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ccwinstructor

Centurion
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
919
Location
Yuma, Arizona, USA
It is possible for Hawaii to ask for an en banc ruling by the 9th Circuit

From the California sub-forum:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...eruta-v-San-Diego-Motions-to-Intervene-Denied

*****************************

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...-En-Banc-Shall-Issue-for-Ninth-Circuit-Upheld

Excerpt from the above 2nd link/post (in "News & Political Alerts" sub-forum):

"Hawaii just lost its highly restrictive permiting "may issue" scheme that prevented nearly anyone but a few security guards from carrying arms in Hawaii (outside of government officials). It appears that the only alternative is for the Supreme Court to hear an appeal of the Ninth Circuit ruling. Who would have standing to appeal is unclear. Both Sheriff Gore and San Diego County have indicated that they will not appeal."

***********************************

Here is another article (which gives more info and in more understandable layman's terms) seen elsewhere on this latest development:

http://www.ammoland.com/2014/11/per...issue-for-ninth-circuit-upheld/#axzz3IvCv9Dfa

Excerpt from the 3rd link's article:

"Today, 12 November, 2014, the Ninth Circuit denied the motions to intervene, thus denying requests for an en banc hearing for the decision. Therefore, Peruta stands as the law of the land in the Ninth Circuit. This means that effectively, some version of “shall issue” carry law will become law in all of the Ninth Circuit."

***********************************

...and Hawaii is in the 9th Circuit.


It is possible for the defendants in the Hawaii case to ask for an en banc ruling in the 9th Circuit. It just seems unlikely that they would be granted it. Then they have the option to appeal to the Supreme Court, which seems more likely.
 

press1280

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
399
Location
Eastern Panhandle,WV ,
It is possible for the defendants in the Hawaii case to ask for an en banc ruling in the 9th Circuit. It just seems unlikely that they would be granted it. Then they have the option to appeal to the Supreme Court, which seems more likely.

They already are asking for en banc. IANAL but there are procedural issues in this case that are different from the ones in CA. This case was actually remanded back to the district court. I have to believe the 9th doesn't grant en banc here, since this is basically a no-issue scheme disguised as a may-issue. The Richards case in CA, however, may be a different story. It's not over until the 9th comes back (should be very soon) as says en banc denied in all cases.
 

DeSchaine

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2013
Messages
537
Location
Kalamazoo, MI
The Peruta and Richards cases are being heard en banc, and will probably end up before SCOTUS. Here. I kinda hope it does go there. It'd be nice to see a Moore V. Madigan type ruling.
 

California Right To Carry

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
462
Location
United States
U.S. appeals court upholds right to carry gun in public

Yesterday, a couple of briefs were filed in Young v. Hawaii. One was an opposition to Young's motion to file a supplemental brief and the other was a motion by the State of Hawaii to file a supplemental Amicus brief.

The Amicus brief is more relevant as it exposes another fatal flaw in the case.

Most people are unaware that the courts have erected a procedural law minefield between unconstitutional laws and people who file lawsuits to have those unconstitutional laws overturned. Contrary to the magistrate judge's conclusion in my California Open Carry lawsuit, it is not necessary to break a law in order to challenge a law nor is it necessary for a state official who is has the authority to enforce the law required to personally threaten a plaintiff with arrest, prosecution fine and imprisonment.

What is required, at a minimum, is to assert an intention to engage in a course of conduct which violates the challenged law.

Also, the law has to be a law which is actually being enforced. There are lots of laws on the books which haven't been enforced in decades. If there is no "recent" history of enforcement or it is impossible to show a likelihood of enforcement then the Federal courts are going to toss the lawsuit for a lack of "standing."

For those interested in reading the filings, they are under my July 12, 2016 update at my website here.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

California Right To Carry

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
462
Location
United States
I think that (in federal court) when one can challenge a law w/o breaking it , it must be a constitutional question at hand.

If the Federal lawsuit does not involve the Federal Constitution (which includes Federal law and administrative decisions by the lowest Federal employee) or anything Federal, the Federal courts are not required to hear the case. Purely state and local matters are left to the State courts.

That said, there aren't a whole lot of things one can't make a Federal case out of.
 

deanf

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
1,789
Location
N47º 12’ x W122º 10’
U.S. appeals court upholds right to carry gun in public

(Reuters) - A federal appeals court ruled on Tuesday that the U.S. Constitution’s Second Amendment protects the right to openly carry a gun in public for self-defense, rejecting a claim by Hawaii officials that the right only applies to guns kept at home.


Link.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Soo I am assuming that OC is now legal in Hawaii. If so it won't take long for the CC laws to change, we know how scared politicians are of open carry.
 

Dave Workman

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
1,874
Location
, ,
9[SUP]th[/SUP] Circuit Panel: ‘Open Carry falls within core of Second Amendment’

A ruling by a three-judge panel of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals could rock the gun probation lobby to its roots, while causing the open carry movement to cheer, by noting that “the Second Amendment encompasses a right to carry a firearm openly in public for self-defense.”

https://conservativefiringline.com/...-carry-falls-within-core-of-second-amendment/


http://www.bostonherald.com/news/na..._says_2nd_amendment_allows_open_carry_of_guns
 

Dave Workman

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
1,874
Location
, ,
Soo I am assuming that OC is now legal in Hawaii. If so it won't take long for the CC laws to change, we know how scared politicians are of open carry.

Well, hold that thought but stand by. My guess, as I wrote (above link) is that this will be taken to an en banc hearing. Don't break out the party hats just yet. But we'll see.
 
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WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Open carry should have been the argument presented decades ago, but the CC industry blocked it. Most of us knew that the courts would be in a bind if they did not rule in favor of OC.
 

unknownsailor

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
49
Location
Bremerton, WA
I find the divergence between this ruling and Peruta very interesting.
CA has banned OC and now allows concealed carry only, but is very may issue in some jurisdictions and essentially open carry in others.
Hopefully the USSC takes up this issue, now that the 9th has gone 2 different directions depending on whether the case is en banc or not.

Also, why no chatter in the Hawaii sub-forum, are they all still asleep over there?
 

77zach

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
2,913
Location
Marion County, FL
Don't worry, they'll find a way around it. They almost always do. And when they don't, the number of strings attached will be so onerous no one will bother. See Washington DC and Illinois.
 
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