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Thread: Front Sight training

  1. #26
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Firearms training/use is very safe the percentage of people killed or hurt are very low.

    Of course when one is responsibly one is too many.

    Front Sight does a very good job in the market they have developed.
    Killing a guy on a zipline, great training.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    Killing a guy on a zipline, great training.
    It is my understanding the guy did not follow instructions. The rider before him had not cleared a hydraulic platform at the end of the line before Martinez began his run. As a result, Martinez collided with that platform not waiting for it to have been lifted out of the way.

  3. #28
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    [QUOTE=Dave_pro2a;2170468]Killing a guy on a zipline, great training.[/QUOTE


    One should stay home and never do anything even then one is not absolutely safe. Actively is dangerous.

    One also expects the people running the activities to be competent.


    I knew a couple of guys in their 40s who went to a retreat and during the break they walked by the zip line and said wow cool. They climbed over the gate, passed the warning signs.

    The first one down smacked the platform on the other end and really broke himself up lucky he was not killed.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 12-02-2015 at 08:01 AM.
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  4. #29
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    Heres the story

    Saturday, October 15, 2011




    Front Sight Firearms Training Institute settles with family of man killed www.privateofficer.com



    LAS VEGAS NV Oct 15 2011-- After more than four years, the family of a man killed in a zipline accident at a southern Nevada gun range has finally received some measure of justice.

    Jesus Valencia died in full view of his family during a Fourth of July celebration at the Front Sight Firearms Training Institute near Pahrump, and the resulting lawsuit reveals new details about the events that lead to his death.

    Front Sight's settlement with the Valencia family is confidential, but 8 News NOW is familiar with the terms. Valencia's wife and two children will receive more than $2 million to end their wrongful death suit, with the last payment due in 2013. Front Sight does not admit wrongdoing in the settlement papers, other than to acknowledge it did not have liability insurance to cover the incident.

    But four years worth of legal filings suggests negligence by the company and employees caused the death of a beloved husband and father.

    "When I got there, he was dying. He was leaving me. I told him not to leave me, that I wanted him here," said Valencia's wife Dalia Valencia.

    Jesus Valencia died in front of his wife, his two young children, and his parents when he slammed into the steel platform of a scissor lift used to lower participants from a zipline.

    "We lost our son because of negligence, because of something that could have been avoided if people were trained like they're supposed to. It shouldn't have happened," said Velencia's father Jesus Valencia, III.

    Valencia's father's suspicions seem solidified in the hundreds of pages of legal documents filed in his wrongful death suit. Only portions of depositions from Front Sight employees have been released, but the information tells the tale of what happened that day.

    Deposition testimony from Front Sight Operation's Manager Brad Ackman details the zipline's safety procedures. Participants, Ackman explains, should be tethered to the tower to prevent falls or premature take-off. Yet John Pierson, the employee manning the platform, acknowledges he hooked Valencia only to the zipline as he was instructed.

    Pierson says there was no discussion during his five minutes of training on the apparatus about how the employee at the top should communicate with the employee at the bottom. As a result, Pierson explains, neither employee exchanged a verbal or visual all clear signal before Valencia slid down the line.

    "When he went down, I heard somebody say something -- one of the other instructors say he shouldn't have left. So I turned to see what was the problem. Then I heard him say put it down or something," said Jesus Valencia, III.

    Pierson had a radio that day, yet to his surprise, John Kinnel, the scissor lift operator below did not. Kinnel testifies he was still unhooking Valencia's 5-year-old daughter, who had ridden the zipline immediately before her dad, when he heard Valencia coming his way.

    Kinnel says he yelled for help, and then realized, "It probably didn't do any good," and returned his attention to the child. Kinnel describes hearing Valencia strike the platform and then working to distract his daughter from her dying father.

    "My daughter is devastated. She dreams and says her daddy fell and her daddy bled," said Dalia Valencia.

    In his deposition, Ackman notes, "I can tell you the protocol was not followed. There is never an occasion when a participant should impact the scissors lift. No way."

    Ackman points the finger at Pierson, as did Front Sight founder Dr. Ignatius Piazza, the self-proclaimed Millionaire Patriot, at least initially.

    A letter sent to Front Sight members the day after Valencia's death says, "This tragedy was not the fault of our fallen first family member," meaning Valencia. But Piazza's subsequent written accounts increasingly shift responsibility to Valencia himself.

    Currently posted on Front Sight's website, Piazza writes, "Evidentially, the participant was distracted by his family."

    Yet in deposition testimony, Ackman says, "I have no reason to think that the Valencias would be able to distract the people that are up on the platform. It's a very focused job."

    "I don't want this to happen to another family, to another member, what happened to us. Front Sight, tell us the truth," said Dalia Valencia.

    Front Sight settled just before trial after four years of contentious litigation. In court records, Piazza is accused of intentionally obstructing the process. The court sanctioned Front Sight repeatedly for failing to follow orders and Piazza was a no show more than once for his scheduled deposition.

    Because of the confidential nature of the settlement, the Valencia family and their attorneys declined to comment for this story. Front Sight did not respond to requests for comment.

    Source:8NewsNow


    Posted by PRIVATE OFFICER BREAKING NEWS at 5:06 AM
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  5. #30
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    There are.... a few other court cases too.

    Something about promises made to property buyers and members. Something about... things not being built and money not refunded iirc.

    Not my problem Just that based on my recollection, Front Sight has some issues.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 28kfps View Post
    I was not trying to be a smart a$$ with my statement of Obviously you are a very active knowable poster call Front Sight and ask them. Thanks for sharing the info. Not the answer you wanted however it was an answer. Sounds like mostly a runaround answer. Not one word about safety as a reason. Interesting as it is one of the main subject during training.
    I did not take offense but agreed that someone should call them; so I did and provided that info.

    Folks are free to partake in their services with the knowledge provided.

    You want training? Just go down to my old Chicago neighborhood on a nice warm summer evening...training will commence immediately.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    There are.... a few other court cases too.

    Something about promises made to property buyers and members. Something about... things not being built and money not refunded iirc.

    Not my problem Just that based on my recollection, Front Sight has some issues.
    http://www.dianahsieh.com/frontsight...002.10.29.html

    A 2002 lawsuit ^^^ notice the poor pleading of defamation ... There is no alleged facts that support that actual injury occurred ...

    The lawsuit was settled just before the case was scheduled to go to trial in April 2005. http://www.dianahsieh.com/frontsight/
    Of course, the terms of the settlement are likely secret...
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 12-02-2015 at 10:11 PM.

  8. #33
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    and in the Chicago area they never call the range safe...life like training on a realistic scale and environment.

    ipse
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    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    of course safety is one of the main subjects during training...first, they already have all your personal data, your money, and...
    oh, wait a moment...don't the nice LEs also have the courts convinced everything they do to a citizen is for the nice LE's safety?

    where was i....

    ipse
    The DMV has my info and money, The bank has my info and money, The gun shops that I have purchased firearms from has my info and money, Every car I purchased from a dealer has my info and my money, My doctors has my info and my money, the finance company has my info and my money, The state CCW system has my info and money, County Tax system has my info and my money, Visa, Chase and others have my info and free money, ya right. I have as I said already a federal security clearance the system was breached earlier this year, so now some foreign groups have my info of me and my family. I am hoping to protect my money (very little) from them.
    My least concern is Front Sight having my info. Money sure best value of anything I have ever purchased. $250 for the life time membership $50 a year for several thousands of dollars of tactical firearm training every year a short distance from my home. What a stupid move on my part.
    If you ever want onetime 2 day training, the training fee is on me. You just have to give them your info and $50 for the background check.
    I will say I have no interest in doing their zip line. Like the old saying the best way to survive a gun fight is not get in one. The best way to survive a zip line is not getting on one.
    Last edited by 28kfps; 12-03-2015 at 03:40 AM.

  10. #35
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    Never been there but it does look like they have some good ranges.

    Most people do not have access to their own private ranges.

    Just in property taxes alone I pay a lot more then then some of their courses cost.

    But then I just have to walk to my closest range a whole 50 feet from the door.

    Having spent decades learning, instructing firearms and tactics.

    Having instructor certificates from 3 certifying organizations in rifle, pistol, shotgun, patrol rifle, police shotgun.

    Armorer certificates from Colt, Ruger, Remington, and Glock

    I most likely not going to Front Sight.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post

    I just have to walk to my closest range a whole 50 feet from the door.

    Having spent decades learning, instructing firearms and tactics.

    Having instructor certificates from 3 certifying organizations in rifle, pistol, shotgun, patrol rifle, police shotgun.

    Armorer certificates from Colt, Ruger, Remington, and Glock

    I most likely not going to Front Sight.

    Way cool. Iím not that guy or certified so Iím going.

  12. #37
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    If nothing else this fund raising thread was dead for a year. Check out AzCDL Front Sight offer.
    Last I looked they still offer the memberships.

  13. #38
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 28kfps View Post
    If nothing else this fund raising thread was dead for a year. Check out AzCDL Front Sight offer.
    Last I looked they still offer the memberships.
    Yes, we (AzCDL) offer full-blown, all you can eat, lifetime Diamond Memberships for $200 at our online store (scroll to the bottom of the page). I paid a lot more for my memberships over the last decade or so. I got my money's worth and am a fan.

    Don't like Front Sight's policies? Don't go there.

    Fred
    Last edited by azcdlfred; 12-13-2015 at 09:32 AM.

  14. #39
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    Costa Ludus

    I'm a Costa Man Fan (Chris Costa). Been to 3 of his three day training's up in Wyoming. He has a great personality, is an expert with both the handgun and rifle, and is an excellent instructor. Learned a great deal and feel I'm a better firearms owner and better prepared because of his training. www.costaludus.com

    Disclaimer: I do not represent Chris Costa or his company Costa Ludus. I've been a student and have come away from his training having both enjoyed the training experience and having learned a great deal.
    Last edited by Bucko; 01-10-2017 at 02:09 PM.

  15. #40
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    IN REGARDS TO JOHN ROBERT PIERSON. SOMETHING ID LIKE TO SAY

    This was many years ago so i find my remarks to be appropriate at this time. First my deepest sympathy to the family. I often think about ypu guys. I also know my ex husband John Robert Pierson has never been the same since this tragic event.
    This statement outages me to the point i feel my blood boil.
    "Ackman points the finger at Pierson, as did Front Sight founder Dr. Ignatius Piazza, the self-proclaimed " pos!
    Ackman and Piazza i dont know how you sleep at night. Your are both horrible arrogant human beings. You know why i feel this way. You both should be ashamed of yourselves.
    I KNOW THE TRUTH. THIS IS INE SUBJECT I WILL STAND BEHIND JOHN PIERSON 100%.
    JOHN PUT HIS HEART AND SOUL INTO THAT PLACE FOR YOU UNGREATFUL COWARDS. YOU KNOW DAM WELL WHY THIS HAPPENED! JOHN PIERSON RAN THE MARTIAL ARTS AND HAND GUN ALL THE WAY TO SNIPER RIFLE. HE WAS NOT TRAINED NOR CERTIFIED NOR GIVEN ANY INSTRUCTIONS THAT NIGHT. THE PERSON WHO WAS SCHEDULED TO WORK DID NOT SHOW. YOU JERKS PUT HIM UP THERE KNOWING HE WASNT CERTIFIED!!! NEITHER WAS THE KID RUNNING THE SCISSOR LIFT! I DONT BELIEVE HE WAS EVEN OLD ENOUGH TO OPERATE THAT EQUIPMENT.
    YOU WANT TO RUN A ZIP LINE FOR FUN AND FAMILY YOU HAVE ONE GOD DAM HARNESSES! WHEN THAT HATNESS IS RETURNED TO THE TOP OF THE TOWER THEN NO QUESTION AS TO IF THE LINE IS CLEAR! DONT USE YOUR MILITARY TRAINING ZIP LINE AS A FAMILY FUN RIDE!
    Many lives are forever damaged and i must stand up for my ex husband. He was very close to that man that he will never forgive himself for what happened that night.
    If anything John Pierson should have sued you two for knowingly letting him OPERATE that zipline uncertified..JOHN PIERSON IS THE MOST MILITANTLY SAFE INSTRUCTOR I COULD EVER KNOW AND HE WAS PUT IN HARMS WAY JUST AS THE FAMILY..HE SUFFERS DEARLY.
    I ALSO KNOW YOU TWO ARE SCUM BAGS. JOHN WALKED AWAY WHEN YOU TWO SHOULD HAVE TAKEN ALL THE BLAME. SHAME ON YOU..IM SORRY I HAD TO POST IN RESPECT OF JOHN R PIERSON. HE NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN PUT IN THAT POSITION. THAT IS THE TRUTH.

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