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NRA and open carry

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
My goal is not that the thread dies. It is either that the accuser substantiates his accusation or that BFA is cleared--with the side benefit of allowing this poster to illustrate how he and his "organization" are working against the overwhelming majority of other gun groups. I am surprised he has not yet accused OCDO of being anti-OC!

His "group" must be the only true supporter of the RKBA in the entire country!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>
 

JYD911

New member
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
10
Location
San Clemente
Let me quote Clinton

What difference does it make!!!

Are you people for the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights??
Are you people patriots or just "special needs" individuals

If you truly believe in the 2A of the Constitution, I DOES NOT MATTER HOW ONE DECIDES TO CARRY!

From my reading it seams the for mentioned groups would rather OC be illegal, so they can use it as a leverage tool for CCW permits.

Give us CCW or we will strike down OC ban!

I am sorry but my GOD GIVEN RIGHT, is NOT a bargaining chip so you can legally hide you firearms!

If you are truly a believer of the 2A, you do not pick and choose which laws to try to overturn... YOU OVERTURN THEM ALL!!!

And since the Sup. Court has set precedent the CCW is not a guaranteed right when OC is available, of course certain groups, who make $$$$$$$$$$$$$ on CCW want it to continue.

When an organization cares more about the almighty $$$, than their members constitutional God given right, that organization is NO DIFFERENT THAN THE TYRANTS IN DC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JMHO

JYD
 
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Vader33

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
65
Location
Littleton, CO
Snipped...

I am sorry but my GOD GIVEN RIGHT, is NOT a bargaining chip so you can legally hide you firearms!


JYD

I'm pretty sure the Bible never mentioned anyone in America had a right to beat arms. I hate when people refer to the 2A as a "God given right." It makes them sound ignorant.

That said, if you have a problem with a member of OCDO, take it up with the mods and admin and let's keep the boards clear of this playground finger pointing ********. You ALL are acting like children. Fight the fight together or GTFO.

/rant.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

JYD911

New member
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
10
Location
San Clemente
exactly my point thanks

The Bill of Rights enumerates (counts them out) the unalienable natural rights of the Declaration of Independence endowed by our Creator.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

The natural law right to life is the natural law right to defense of ones life.

Exactly my point thank you

I'm pretty sure the Bible never mentioned anyone in America had a right to beat arms. I hate when people refer to the 2A as a "God given right." It makes them sound ignorant.

I do not know about VADER but my creator is GOD, so it is my GOD GIVEN RIGHT!!!!
Now who is the ignorant one lmfao!!!
 

Tackleberry1

Regular Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
86
Location
Camas
There is much truth in the public and even the majority of gun owners not being ready to support OC. My outspoken support for OC based on the 2A right to do it and the 4A right to refuse to give your ID to illiterate cops draws constant fire from "self proclaimed" 2A supporters.

To me, OC is a Civil Right issue, not a gun issue, and activists need to be approaching it as such by refusing to be harassed based on nothing more than a cop or citizens irrational fears.

Both the NRA and Law Enforcement would see funding hits if OC was mainstream which explains why the majority of both oppose it.

Personally, I still do support the NRA because in my view, the good they do outweighs the lack of OC support.

The silver lining is that the median age of OC supporters is 26 years of age and tend to be more libertarian than republican.

As a 42 year old vet, CC guy for 20 years, and OC guy for 5, I think the winning tactic is to co opt both the NRA and the Republican Party with a mix of Libertarian and Tea Party leaning conservatives.

Winning the gun right battle peacefully will never happen in the current 2 party system... Because the "system" is a hoax.

If conservative gun right folks wish to turn the tables, they need to recognize that the Libertarian platform is the only way too do it... and they need to accept that demanding a government that does not judge and impune our right to bear arms is a government we can no longer ask to impune other constitutional rights supported by the left.

Tack
 

MyWifeSaidYes

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
1,028
Location
Logan, OH
JYD911 said:
Vader33 said:
I'm pretty sure the Bible never mentioned anyone in America had a right to beat arms. I hate when people refer to the 2A as a "God given right." It makes them sound ignorant.
I do not know about VADER but my creator is GOD, so it is my GOD GIVEN RIGHT!!!!
Now who is the ignorant one lmfao!!!

Let's take the 'religion' out of the argument, shall we?

Did the right exist prior to the Constitution?

If so, it is a pre-existing right, regardless of "who" or "what" gave it to you.

Such pre-existing rights are PROTECTED by the Constitution.

This is one area where the devout and the devoid should agree.

I am not a religious person, but I do believe the religious among us should be allowed to believe as they see fit. Those who do not believe in organized religions should be allowed to believe as THEY see fit.

Please do not let differing religious beliefs distract you from the battle against the anti-gunners and anti-rights groups.
 

JYD911

New member
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
10
Location
San Clemente
Agree 100%, no if ands or buts about it

Let's take the 'religion' out of the argument, shall we?

Did the right exist prior to the Constitution?

If so, it is a pre-existing right, regardless of "who" or "what" gave it to you.

Such pre-existing rights are PROTECTED by the Constitution.

This is one area where the devout and the devoid should agree.

I am not a religious person, but I do believe the religious among us should be allowed to believe as they see fit. Those who do not believe in organized religions should be allowed to believe as THEY see fit.

Please do not let differing religious beliefs distract you from the battle against the anti-gunners and anti-rights groups.

Everyone decides their own creator, could be MOM, universe, mother nature, aliens lol
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
The NRA is what it is. Either support them or do not support them. There are enough members to keep the coins flowing into their coffers. The other "gun groups" are what they are. Just like a gin joint, there are different brands of booze, pick yer poison.

My experience is that a NRA lawyer can help or hurt a effort to restore OC if infringed by statute. If they hurt, use grassroots efforts to negate their efforts. This goes to for any other "big gun group." In MO we work in spite of any gun group or their position. The option I take is to "out" the NRA goon if he forwards a agenda that doe not comport with our state's constitution. The NRA goon is not OC centric and thus not liberty centric in my view. My efforts are meager and only a small few have changed their view of the NRA. The NRA is about hunting with firearms cuz that is where the vast majority of their members reside. The vast majority of the hunters I know do not carry at all, only a small few CC, and none of them would ever OC. I am the odd duck in that crowd.

Anyway, support who believe best represents your interests. I focus on my current state, MO, and SC, my home state. I see more success in a shorter amount of time. The courts are the only route when liberals control the state house. And, in the case of MO, the courts may be the route even when the statehouse is overflowing with self proclaimed 2A/ Art. I, Sec. 23 advocates.

Pick yer poison and carry on as you see fit.
 

Gunluvr

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
13
Location
Decatur, Georgia, United States
The NRA has left the open carry war to the state level gun groups that are way more effective in using their resources to keep anti-gunners checkmated. Imagine what would have happened if NRA tagged participants would have shown up at that parking lot in Texas where those idiot gun control moms were meeting at Applebee's; As it was it was Texas Open Carry and they can fight their own battles. It's like layered pro-gun security to make politicians feel the heat if they try to take our guns. We escalate as needed and the NRA is the last ditch big bore political juggernaut that pols justifiably fear.
 
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WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
The NRA has left the open carry war to the state level gun groups that are way more effective in using their resources to keep anti-gunners checkmated. Imagine what would have happened if NRA tagged participants would have shown up at that parking lot in Texas where those idiot gun control moms were meeting at Applebee's; As it was it was Texas Open Carry and they can fight their own battles. It's like layered pro-gun security to make politicians feel the heat if they try to take our guns. We escalate as needed and the NRA is the last ditch big bore political juggernaut that pols justifiably fear.

That is all fine and good until the NRA asks me for money. FORK THE NRA!
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
The NRA has left the open carry war to the state level gun groups ....

Not really. The NRA actively works against open carry when it suits their purposes for the more popular and money-getting permitting processes.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Not really. The NRA actively works against open carry when it suits their purposes for the more popular and money-getting permitting processes.

I tried to point out how the NRA was dead wrong in what they had posted online about open carry in Alabama. They were not interested at all. I haven't belonged to the NRA since.
 

BriKuz

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Messages
201
Location
Springfield, MO
Let's take the 'religion' out of the argument, shall we?

Did the right exist prior to the Constitution?

If so, it is a pre-existing right, regardless of "who" or "what" gave it to you.

Such pre-existing rights are PROTECTED by the Constitution.

This is one area where the devout and the devoid should agree.

I am not a religious person, but I do believe the religious among us should be allowed to believe as they see fit. Those who do not believe in organized religions should be allowed to believe as THEY see fit.

Please do not let differing religious beliefs distract you from the battle against the anti-gunners and anti-rights groups.

Something that keeps bothering me... people keep looking at the Constitution as "granting" them something. This is false. The Constitution is an agreement between the several States (and their Citizens) to give up some of their individual rights, which are enumerated in the Constitution. As an added bonus, the several States place some clauses in to SPECIFICALLY exclude certain individual rights from regulation by the government. State and Federal Constitutions give the individual citizen NOTHING... they merely state what individual Citizens are ALLOWING the government to do!
 

California Right To Carry

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
462
Location
United States
California concealed carry lawsuits falling like dominoes in slow motion

The Peruta/Richards Full Court petitions would delay the concealed carry cases in the 9th Circuit from falling like a row of dominoes, or so I thought.

On June 24th, Nordstron v. Dean (Ventura County) was dismissed with prejudice by district court judge Dolly M. Gee. The same attorney has two more cases in district court teetering on the brink: Christopher Anderson et al v. John Scott et al and Birdt v. San Bernardino Sheriffs Department where the attorney, Jon Birdt, had been denied a concealed carry permit for lacking "good moral character." The court has asked the parties to file supplemental briefs which are due on June 30th and then the court will rule on the motions. It doesn't take a crystal ball to predict the outcome of the case. The Nordstrom case also involved a failure to meet the good moral character requirement of the state law. He has one case already on appeal in which the appellant was denied a concealed carry permit for lack of residency, Sigitas Raulinaitis v. Ventura County Sheriffs Department and another against the City of Torrance and the Los Angeles Sheriff's department. The City of Torrance was dismissed as a defendant because it changed its policy and issued the plaintiff-appellant a concealed carry permit. This, of course, renders the appeal moot even if the en banc Peruta Court had not held that there is no right to carry a weapon concealed in public. Raulinaitis has a second appeal against the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department. Birdt was also denied a CCW by the LASD and LAPD, which is also on appeal. The NRA/CRPA has a concealed carry appeal out of Orange County which is stayed pending the mandate in Peruta.

Michael Vogler v. City of Pasadena et al was voluntarily dismissed by the plaintiff after the en banc decision in Peruta v. San Diego was published. Vogler is an attorney who recognizes the futility of beating a dead horse. He told me he was going to be filing his own Open Carry lawsuit. I reminded him that I already have one waiting on appeal and the likely outcome of his filing a case is that his would be stayed pending a decision in my California Open Carry appeal. As of this posting he has not filed a new lawsuit. Neither has the NRA filed its promised Open Carry lawsuit. :lol:

James Rothery, et al. v. County of Sacramento, et al is the oldest concealed carry case on appeal. The parties have filed a joint motion to stay the case for 90 days after the mandate is issued in Peruta v. San Diego.

Rothery, like all of the other California concealed carry cases, did not seek to carry openly in any way. All of the plaintiffs and plaintiff-appellants read the Heller decision and said to themselves "Gosh! The Heller decision said Open Carry is the right guaranteed by the Constitution and that concealed carry is not a right and can therefore be banned. This means I have a right to a concealed carry permit!" :banana: Rothery's attorney has already lost one concealed carry case on appeal, Mehl v. Blanas, nearly three years ago. It escaped being one of the dominoes to fall.

There are two cases out of Hawaii, Baker v. Kealoha and Young v. Hawaii. The first is a preliminary injunction which the attorneys have abandoned. It is stayed pending Peruta and will get kicked back to the district court. The other (Young) is an appeal by a then newly minted lawyer who missed the day in law school where he was told that one of the few things a court cannot do is to compel a legislature to write a new law and his request for relief regarding carrying a handgun in public was so poorly written (I think he got the idea from Gura's Palmer v. DC case) that the court can grant his alternate relief and he would still not be able to carry a handgun in public. The best the Young case can hope for is a remand back to the district court for a do-over.

So what was that? A dozen or so concealed carry cases plummeting to the earth with nothing to look forward to other than crashing and burning.

Leaving my lone, Open Carry case as the last one standing. :cool:

EDIT - August 27, 2016:

Scocca v. Smith - Concealed Carry (Santa Clara County) on August 27 at approximately 10 AM the Madison Society posted this on its Facebook page:

"The Madison Society just received notification from our attorney that the Ninth Circuit has denied a request for full court en banc in Peruta/Richards. Without a fundamental right to carry concealed, and with a client (Mr. Scocca) who already has an open carry permit we are dead in the water because the court will simply say that Mr. Scocca is already exercising the only 2nd Amendment rights he is entitled to with respect to public carry. This fact was a plus when we wanted to argue that there is no rational basis for denying someone a concealed permit, when that someone already has an open carry permit. That fact makes our case frivolous in light of the current state of the law.

He also advised us to let him dismiss the case on the most favorable terms he can get, and warned us to be careful exercising our gun rights with the current anti-gun climate in California."

EDIT - SEPTEMBER 12, 2016:

On September 12, 2016 - Jonathan Birdt v. San Bernardino Sheriffs Department concealed carry lawsuit was dismissed with prejudice.

160 – Order Accepting the Report and Recommendation of the Magistrate Judge

161 – Final Judgment

And another one bites the dust. :lol:

NO CCW FOR YOU.jpg
 
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davidmcbeth

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Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
How exciting. Thx for info on other cases. Of course our natural right to KBA is not predicated upon one (OC/CC) being preferred.

Sounds like ya had some coffee today and wrangled up the energy to produce the informative post.

Good luck in your appeal.
 

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
What a shame to see a self-professed supporter of RKBA so happy to see efforts to expand the ability to legally carry a gun for self-defense failing. It appears that we have in "California Right to Carry" a combination of opposition to the personal choice to carry a gun discretely coupled with an ego far more interested in his own aggrandizement than it is in actually advancing RKBA.

Of course, I hope his efforts to get OC recognized as a constitutional right that cannot be banned or regulated with licensure requirements is completely successful.

I will not be at all surprised if the same 9th circuit judges that have shown such hostility to CC demonstrate sufficient legal gymnastics to rule equally hostile toward OC.

Charles
 

California Right To Carry

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
462
Location
United States
How exciting. Thx for info on other cases. Of course our natural right to KBA is not predicated upon one (OC/CC) being preferred.

Sounds like ya had some coffee today and wrangled up the energy to produce the informative post.

Good luck in your appeal.

I'll be filing a status report and motion in a couple of weeks. I had to do the work regardless for my filings and so why not post here?
 
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